Subject: Re: Fw: Your New Goats


THIS IS A CLASSIC DESCRIPTION OF GOAT POLIO



Download 1.93 Mb.
Page2/4
Date09.05.2021
Size1.93 Mb.
1   2   3   4
THIS IS A CLASSIC DESCRIPTION OF GOAT POLIO
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 08:49:10 -0500
   From: "Aleda Kivett" <aleda@fidmail.com>
Subject: re: thiamine supplement

I don't know that the first doe had a thiamine deficiency, she was down, head turned to her side, neck muscles ridged, trembling in muscles of hind end, no temp ( high or low ), became blind in one eye.  She survived , because of or in spite of my treatment.  Vet thought it might have been Meningitis because of the blindness, but even he said it is pretty rare for a goat to survive meningitis. The second young doe had almost all of the classic symptoms; ridged neck muscles, head turned slightly, beginning to circle right, trembling muscles in hind quarters. facial muscles pulled into ridged grimace, pushing against objects.  She pushed her head through a net fence and was electrocuted by the high tensile...I took her body to the vet and he is going to see if there is a post mortem test for thiamine deficiency...but even he agreed it is a thiamine problem.  Not a good ending.  Thanks for the information on b1 and the rumen...I have another days work to fix fence and I will put them on a native grass pasture, it will be much better than what they are on although even it is dormant and stiff.  Hopefully today's rain will continue and the pastures will revive.  Question becomes what was the stress factor that shut her b1 production down...poor pasture ( none of them would eat the hay I put out not because it was poor hay they would just rather eat what was in the pasture plenty of it just no quality ) heat??

thanks
Aleda

********************************************************************************
From: mel and Doris uphoff <mduphoff@atcjet.net>
Subject: Re: re: thiamine supplement

Below is from Coni Ross's notes.    By her explanation you will notice that the thiamin can be destroyed in the gut. We had a goat go blind, not other problems, and by using the thiamine she is fine now.
Doris 

Well the bacteria of the ruminant manufacture thiamin (put very simply). For some reason, occasionally bad bacteria, or plants kill the normal bacteria, causing overgrowth of bad bacteria that produce Thiaminase.
Thiamin is destroyed. Thiamin and glucose are the mode by which the electrical transmission goes from brain to body part. Without it, the signal does not get there.


The animal may present with various symptoms, but usually there is paralysis, or stiffness, stargazing which may be accompanied by blindness. Sometimes the symptoms are virtually the same as Tetanus. To determine if the animal has Tetanus or polio: Tickle the eyelashes. If it is Tetanus, the nictating membrane (third eyelid) will flip over the eye. If not, and there is no fever, this is Polio.


To treat, I give: 10cc oral longacting Penicillin to kill the bacteria in the gut, 10cc Longacting Penicillin SQ (for a grown goat factor for kids), and at least 500mg IM of Thiamin, and 500mg SQ to start. Thiamin is vitamin B1, and is water soluble, so it doesn't last long. The IM Thiamin goes to work right away, and the SQ Thiamin will provide a more sustained blood level. I usually give the goat several ounces of Revive, or 50% Dextrose mixed 50:50 with water, to get some sugar to it's brain. If not treated, massive brain damage occurs, and death is probable. ON day two, I restart the rumen with Calf Pac, and  continue with the same regimen of Thiamin. No more Penicillin is necessary in most cases. Thiamin must be continued until the goat is fully recovered.
************************************************************************************
Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 02:10:16 -0400
   From: "c" <carriet@verizon.net>
Subject: Blister Beetle Support

Here are a few suggestions to help an animal have a chance of survival, but this is when it is caught at the onset:
(Carrie)

Blister beetle poison (cantharidin) effects horses worse than it effects other animals. They don't seem to be as good at fighting the poison.
There isn't a specific antidote for cantharidin, but fast aggressive symptomatic therapy is necessary.  mineral oil to help the intestinal tract. Activated charcoal by mouth may be helpful if given early on. Calcium and magnesium supplementation long term is almost always needed. Other therapies include fluids, pain meds, and diuretics.
A very careful eye on normal blood levels, and electrolyte concentrations are some of the things they try to do to help bring an animal through. If there are no complications they can usually survive a round of it. supportive therapy is extremely important. The best way to treat it is to prevent it from happening at all.
Hope this explains it for you.
***************************************************************************************
Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 04:21:28 -0000
From: "Sherry Williams" <jubaltwo@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: coccidiosis

I've lost kids in the past to cocci without them having a single symptom.  Fine and dandy, fat and sassy, running and playing....and dead 12 hours later....It was quite a shock as I'd just treated them for cocci only 3 weeks earlier...I learned a hard lesson that year.

Personally, I use DiMethox 40% injectable given orally.  I like that it is so much more effective than Corid (there's a big ol' explanation as to why but I'm not going into it here) and that I only have to give a small dose of cc's of DiMethox as opposed to ounces of Corid (lessens the chance of getting fluid into the lungs).  The dosage of DiMethox I use is 1cc per 10 pounds the first day and 1/2cc per 10 pounds for days 2, 3, 4, and 5.  If you choose to use Corid, give all the goats a shot of B Complex the last day of (or the day after) the treatment is
finished.

The goats can have a cocci overload without going into all the classic symptoms you read about.  Sometimes the only sign is a scruffy kid that doesn't seem to gain weight or doesn't grow as well as the others. 
Pale eyelids will keep you worming one but if that doesn't help, it could be cocci.  It's sneaky stuff sometimes.

Sherry Williams

************************************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Listeriosis

Listeriosis is always accompanied by high fever. If the doe isn't febrile, then I would suspect polio.
What works best for me it to give a one time oral dose of 10cc Penicillin (to topically kill bad bacteria in the gut), 10cc SQ of Penicillin, and Thiamin 1 gram. I usually give 500mg IM, and 500mg SQ to extend the absorption. Usually only one dose of Penicillin is necessary for Polio, and then follow with Calf Pac on day two. I prefer to give the goat 100cc Revive orally, mixed 50:50 with water. If the goat can't swallow, I drench or tube it. I do not like to give SQ fluids, as severe infection can occur if sterile technique is not followed. Calf Pac will restart the digestive organisms, and start the recovery process. Thiamin must be given every day until recovery is complete.
Thiamin is the neurological vitamin, and the nervous system does not function without it. The thiamin can be given orally once the gut is restarted. Coni
 
Coni Ross

********************************************************************************
I need to give a few of my pet goats (Nubian, Nubian/Boer crosses, & Boer) some antibiotics based on weight. I have only been able to find "weight-measurement" charts for dairy & pygmy goats. I am trying to find out if there is a measurement formula specific to "meat" goats.


Hi Sandra, best formula I know of for estimating the weight of goats I got from D.G.Pugh, Sheep and
Goat Medicine, page 43.  Measure the animal around the heart girth (just behind the front legs), then measure the animal along the side from the point of the shoulder (the bone just above and in front of the front legs) to the pin bone (bony point next to the tail). 
Multiply the figures (in inches) as follows:  heart girth x heart girth x length x 300.  This will give you the weight of the animal in pounds.  For those who work in kilograms, multiply the pounds by 0.4536 to convert the weight to kilograms. 
I have not yet been able to check this formula by actually weighing an animal but I have compared the results I get to the various 'weight-measurement' charts and I think the charts are less accurate than this formula.  I do know from experience that the charts are inaccurate unless you have exactly the type of goat they used.
--
Glenda Plog
Lowood, Queensland, Australia.

****************************************************************************************
From: "rsfboers" <rsfboers@netdot.com>
Subject: Re: best way to cycle does

I personally prefer using cidrs.....they just aren't readily available everywhere. You insert the cidr.... then pull it  in 13 to 19 days....the does should be in heat within 24 to 30 hours after the cidrs are pulled.
Outside the main breeding season I give 1cc of PG600 IM at the time I pull the cidrs.....I pull half one day and half the next.  This has the does coming in a little staggered...makes it easier on the buck.  If giving a shot I prefer to use Estrumate over Lutalyse....it seems to work better and more consistently. I don't think either works very well if the doe isn't cycling already. Both drugs are vet products....cidrs are usually available through people doing embryo transplant work and run from $4 to $6 each.

Peggy Taylor
Rocky Sprngs Farm

****************************************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Floppy kid

Floppy kid is bacterial. I have cultured it, and have an experimental vaccine. I can't tell  much about the cause yet, but hope to have a vaccine available in the next few years. The experimental vaccine works very well.

Floppy is easy to treat: 2cc long acting penicillin, and 500mg thiamin mixed in the same syringe given orally once a day for 3 days.

Other than the vaccine, there is no prophylactic treatment, and no common denominator. One of a set of twins may have it, and not the other. Bottle kids were at first thought to be over fed, but actually the peristalsis stops, because the nervous system can't get the signals to the voluntary or autonomic nervous system. The food (milk) just does not move down the digestive tract, and the belly stays full. If not treated, kids die. Although it can happen any time of the year, spring is the most common time. Cool damp mornings followed by a hot day seem the most common conditions for floppy: March-May being the most prevalent time to see floppy.

I do not use an antacid if the kids are caught early: That is when just wobbling. If I find the kid comatose, I give 10cc Pepto Bismol, and treat for floppy. I put the kid in shade if it is hot, and in the sun if it is cool. I do not remove kids from the doe. That doe will stand over her kid, and 'talk to" mother, and stimulate the kid, and it is my opinion that they recover faster. I have seen does with strutted udders standing over a floppy kid, licking, talking, and generally trying to persuade the kid to nurse. The kid will nurse when it is able if that doe is standing over it. I do occasionally give a 3-5cc dose of 50% dextrose orally to floppy kids when they are down.

See the archives for an original post about floppy. Coni
*************************************************************************************
 
Message: 20       
   Date: Sun, 31 Jul 2005 18:09:20 -0500
   From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Floppy kid

Actually, the key is to kill the bacteria in the digestive tract with Penicillin, and replace thiamin. I had 650 floppys in 3 weeks, and I assure you the oral treatment of 2cc Penicillin and 500mg thiamin works very well,
and within 6 hours most kids stand and nurse.  I started off with giving Penicillin and thiamin SQ, then discovered it works just as fast if given orally. I did not give Ringers lactate SQ to any kid, and only 2 of the 650 died. Those two were out in the hot sun when I found them, and it was hyperthermia that killed them. They need sugar to the brain, and thiamin.

Floppy does not usually occur after 3 weeks of age, but can occur as early as a few hours after birth. It occurs spontaneously all over the world, and as I said before, there is no known common denominator.

I give Covexin 8, and my does have Rumensin in the diet. None of those stop floppy from occurring.
Coni

****************************************************************************************
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2005 06:42:09 -0600
   From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: abortion/Tertracycline

I would give each doe 4cc SQ of Biomycin per 100lbs on day one, then put Terramycin soluble powder in the water. It comes in different strengths, depending on the manufacturer. Clean the trough out each morning, and
add fresh drug each morning, fill the trough, and turn off the water until all of it is consumed. I would  mix it so that a minimum of 500mg/day/doe. So for example: a package with 10 grams is enough for  20 goats for one day. Take the number of grams listed on the front of the package, and divide it by two, and you will have the number of goats it will treat. 1 gram is 1,000 mg, so if you need 500mg/goat, then one gram will treat 2 goats. It will also treat Leptospirosis, which causes abortion also.


There is a Chlamydia  vaccine, but it is not available at this time. If you can get some of the vaccine, I would  vaccinate the goats before you breed them next time .  Vaccinate, booster, then put the buck in. Be sure to vaccinate your bucks also.
 
Coni Ross

-------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: complete feed vs corn

I use a good balanced feed for my fullbloods, and young goats. I supplement with corn. If you have goats on limited area, then the complete feed is better. I feed corn as a supplement to help keep range goats warm, when the weather is bad. Coni
 
Coni Ross
----------------------------------------------------------

Message: 11       
   Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 05:18:48 -0600
   From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: to get cold kids to nurse/mothering

I tie the doe to the side of a panel, so that she has to cooperate. Then I get each kid, and on my knees, back the kid's rear up to my knees, bend it's knees, and open it's mouth with my left forefinger, and put the nipple in it's mouth, then milk the doe's milk into it 's mouth. It would help to 'tickle' it's tail, as this stimulates the suck reflex.
Even if the kid won't suck, you can milk enough into it's mouth to get some colostrum in there. Sometimes cold kids 'dummy', and just don't have the will to live. 3-5cc of 50% dextrose will usually get one going enough to wake up and try to nurse. Be sure the orifice of the teat is open before you start all of this. Any doe that walks away from her kids needs to be culled. Mothering is inherited.
This year, I have had several cases of kid theft, and had to stall the actual mother with her kids to reestablish scent. I had an old doe in labor, who whipped the young doe off, stole her kids (already tagged, dry, nursed), then proceeded to have twins of her own. The young doe had already given up . I stalled them, made sure the kids nursed, and the doe decided by morning that they were hers. I normally kid them in the pasture, where this would not happen, but the unseasonably cold weather made it imperative to put them in a 5 acre trap with a barn.  Normally it isn't this cold in December, we have had January, February type weather. Coni
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Nov 2005 05:56:24 -0600
   From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: buck with loosened horns

Were the horns broken in the skull?  If so, they can be splinted. I use dowels to do this: the1/4" diameter dowels need to be cut so that one piece is 4-6" wider than the horns at the base. The second one should be placed    6-8" higher, and should be  4-6 longer than the width of the horns at that height. I use duct tape split length wise to make it narrow. Secure the dowel closest to the head first, to the strong horn, then position the weak horn correctly, and secure it with tape to the lowest dowel. Then proceed the same way with the longer dowel. Take care to position the horn exactly first. You may need to get some Ace Promazine to sedate the
goat some first. I use  the injectable, and give it orally. It works very fast to chill one out enough you can handle him. You need for him to be still. I would follow this with a one time dose of Penicillin if the skin is broken around the horn, and a tetanus or CDT booster.
If the horns are broken above the skull, they will need to be cut off at the break: they will not heal. Get out a disbudding iron, and get it hot to cauterize and stop bleeding.
Make sure you have mineral out for the buck. Buck's skulls are usually very tough, and I have never seen a buck break a horn in the skull, only doe  kids. I tried to call you last evening, and missed you. Coni
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: goat crippled on front feet

It could also be Bluetongue: a viral infection spread by biting insects. It is endemic in the US, and is most common in a wet year. Keep the feet trimmed as short as you can. You may think you are seeing blood, but it
is old hemorrhages in the  hoof caused by the virus.  The hooves become very long, hard, almost impossible to trim, and deformed looking in some cases. You just need to keep them off short, VERY short, and it will
help. Most cases are not founder in goats, but just Blue tongue. Goats don't even always have it in all four feet. 
I use a Smith sharpener to keep my hoof trimmers razor sharp. You can get it at Academy Sporting goods in Texas, but I would think most sporting goods store would carry them. It is a diamond sharpener with a coarse side, and a fine side. You will need the hoof trimmers sharp to do it. Coni
 
Coni Ross

-------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Jan 2006 05:58:41 -0600
   From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Lisa's dead kid

The most frequent cause of death in kids less than  3 days old is Enterotoxemia type C. This sounds like what the kid died of to me. What works for me: For a newborn: 3cc oral penicillin,  5cc Penicillin SQ,  5cc SQ of CD antitoxin, 15cc Pepto Bismol, Banamine per body weight: 1cc/100lbs. Repeat the Pepto, in 3 hours. Repeat SQ penicillin, and SQ CD antitoxin the next day.
 
Coni Ross

-------------------------------------------------------------
Coni Ross <crranch@texas.net> wrote:  To: <The_Boer_Goat@yahoogroups.com>
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2005 06:02:22 -0600
Subject: [The_Boer_Goat] MIlk Fever, pregnancy toxemia, ketosis

          Milk fever is actually a calcium deficiency. It is usual in late pregnancy, and for a time after parturition (birth) in heavy milking animals. Symptoms of early hypo calcemia: Stiffness, hyper excitability,
  restlessness and feet shuffling in cattle. Goats will dig at the ground with forefeet, circle, and call out, Heart rate, and respiratory rate is increased IF NO CALCIUM IS GIVEN: Calcium Gluconate is recommended,
  because blood sugar is also low. I give a goat 100cc oral to start, then add it to the revive at 200ml/liter.
 

Stage 2, the goat will not be able to stand, but can stay upright.
They do not eat, or drink. At this point, smooth muscle paralysis may occur, and  defecation and urination stops. There is no uterine tone, and birth becomes impossible without intervention. Calcium may be given oral, or VERY SLOW IV PUSH. Oral is safest, because of cardiac arrhythmias.


  Stage 3:Coma. Animals in coma do not survive long.
  
  Pregnancy toxemia is caused by multiple factors. The number one factor is multiple pregnancy. The other factors can include obesity, under nutrition, stress from cold, or heat. Put very simply: Energy needs are higher than consumption.
The female is unable to consume enough carbohydrates to keep the serum glucose high enough to maintain the pregnancy.  She metabolizes her own fat and muscle to create glucose to keep the pregnancy alive. First  to  note is body condition changing, so that the bones over the top of the back are palpable, and or visible. The animal looses appetite. She may be very heavy bred, and reluctant to stand or walk. By products of fat metabolism are called ketones. Excessive ketones in the bloodstream,( as indicated by ketones in urine), cause keto acidosis, which makes the animal sleepy, and causes loss of appetite. A vicious cycle develops. There is also protein spilled in the urine.  Another complication is  toxins produced by the pregnancy as fetal waste, which must be excreted by the kidneys. The liver and kidneys do not have the ability to  secrete these toxins. Water intake, is very important to prevent this from occurring. Immediate steps should be taken to prevent the progression of the disease. The first step is to increase sugar intake until the need is met, and fat is no longer metabolized. This will allow time for the kidneys to secrete the ketones in the blood, so that the animal becomes more awake. I give a 2-3 scoop dose of calf pac in the Revive, mixed 50:50 with water. If the bacteria is alive, then the goat will be more likely to eat. Acidosis kills gut bacteria, and this compound the vicious cycle. IF enough live bacteria are present, and the serum ketones can be lowered by providing enough sugar, then the animal will become more alert, and start eating. I recommend using a  sweet feed, corn, fed a handful at a time, until she can eat a pound, and alfalfa free choice. I have held does with quintuplets to term alert, and doing well with this method.
  Pregnancy toxemia does not always accompany milk fever, and vice versa.  The doe may have pregnancy toxemia, but not spill ketones if maintained well, but still be toxic because of inability of kidneys and liver to
  secrete the toxins.  Often, in this type case, there is fetal death.  I know this is simple, but hope it explains the differences.
Coni

CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197
www.crranch.org
********************************************************************

From: "Vivianna" <irishana@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Pregnant Doe with Swollen Feet; revive.

1 bottle 50 dextrose
20CC B complex
5CC B12
2CC 500MG-ML thiamin
Add if using for preg tox
1 bottle amino acid solution (not the concentrate)
2MG ascorbic acid.

Mix this half revive and half water. 
Keep in a dark relatively cool place and it will keep.

Vivianna
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:04:41 -0800
From: "Sandy Johnson" <Zillahgoatlady@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bo Se

We are very deficient in selenium here, I just gave my does that are due in a few weeks all of their shots.  Some got 4 cc's of Bo-Se, and all of my babies get 1 cc at birth, have been doing that for about 18 years now.  This
info came from my vet who is a wonderful goat vet.  I vaccinate my girls with CD/T, Super Poly Bac Somus (pneumonia vac), Bo-se (1 cc per 40 lb), and I give them Ivomec orally and will worm them again when they freshen.


Sandy J
Rafter CSJ Dairy Goats & 3 beautiful Dexter heifers
Zillah, WA

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 07:11:12 -0600
   From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Pyometra in a doe?

The vet mis-diagnosed your doe, and aborted her.  I have never heard of a doe with Pyometra. That is a dog problem. Goats have endometritis from a dirty delivery or from a dead kid in the uterus.  Mummified kids are a problem occasionally when one fetus dies in early gestation, but the other fetus is still alive. Some types of
viral disease (Akabane/Arthrogyroposis) can cause mummified fetus to occur.  Even in humans, occasionally one twin will die in utero, and the other twin is delivered fine.
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Grafting kids  My way

 But, there really are easier methods.  I know Karen Venglar has such luck with grafting kids.  She told me how she did it..........I've forgotten.  Hopefully she will come on the list and tell us.
I, myself have never had much luck grafting a kid.  I think its because I do not have the patience needed to accomplish this. :<)

  Judy and David Muska

  Judy what I have always done and I have had a 100% success rate at doing this is one of two ways depending on what has accrued.

  1) If the doe just kidded and she only had one.  I take the afterbirth and rub it all over the kid I want to graft. If you are there when she is kidding you can catch the clear fluid from the birth and smear that also on the graft kid.  Once she has kidded and I check to make sure that is the only kid she is having then  I take her kid to another kidding pen where I have the graft kid that I have already smeared with her afterbirth or fluid.  The doe will follow you crying for her kid to the new pen where she now has two kids to clean.  She is confused because you moved her and is only concerned about being with her kids now and will clean and talk to both as well let both nurse.

  2)  If the doe has kidded and you have no afterbirth to smear on the kid then I milk the doe about a half of a coke bottle and smear it on the graft kids face, body and rear as well as on her own kid.  The I move her kid to another kidding pen and she will then follow concerned about her kid and will except both because she smells the milk on both kids.

  This is how I have always done it and have always had them take them. 

  Karen Venglar
************************************************************************
From: EGGSTX@aol.com
Subject: Re: Chlamydia

A sheep/goat vet told us a few years ago to give the pregnant does a  5 ml shot of LA 200 or Tetradure and then come back three days later with  another shot.  You can also add tetracycline to the water for about five  days to go with the shots.  The non-pregnant does should probably be vaccinated prior to breeding.  This is what we were told a couple of years  ago when Texas was having a bad outbreak.
Good Luck!
Jackie
***********************************************************************
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 06:24:38 -0600
   From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: teaser bucks

Lots of folks use a teaser buck to tell them when a doe is in heat, so that they can hand breed her, or AI her. Also, teasers are used in embryo programs to service recipient does. If the recip does are actually serviced, the rate of pregnancy increases, because the does are physiologically 'bred', even thought they are not inseminated. When you put that embryo in, she is already 'bred'.  I do not use a vasectomized buck, I use several big wethers. I give the wethers  testosterone once a week for 2 weeks, and they will service those recip does very well. When
it is over, they go back to being sweet wethers, so one does not have to deal with obnoxious bucks that still cause trouble. These are old show wethers that are as big as a Shetland pony. Coni
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
*******************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: late deliverd dead kid

She has an infection. I would give at least 15cc SQ of Penicillin, and 10cc polyserm or Bovi Sera plus a weight appropriate dose of   Banamine. I would give penicillin at least 3 days. Coni
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
*********************************************************************

: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Selenium toxicity/BoSe,MuSe

MuSe can be given to kids in severely deficient areas if it is given orally. I wouldn't give more than .2(two tenths) of it oral. BoSe is better for kids, and one cc( of the injectable) can be given oral in newborns. For kids with splayed legs, I usually give Thiamin 500mg oral, and the kid is up the next day. The MLS tubs have lots of Selenium in them, and you all in the Selenium deficient areas may want to try that. Coni 


Coni Ross
CR Ranch

*******************************************************************
From: "Henri and Carol DeLobbe" <delobbebonjoli@ctesc.net>
Subject: Re:  Strange Kid Born

I have had this experience, and went through quite a lot of research on it.  It is called "Anasarka".  Be prepared that if you do a web search there is a German rock band band by that name!  My vet checked Mary Smith's book about goat medicine, and from that gave me the news that it was a genetic problem--she has a paragraph about it that says 11 kids born to a single Angora sire had the condition, so it was assumed to be genetic.  However, in my herd, the 3 pregnancies affected were from 2 different (largely unrelated) sires and 3 unrelated does (this was several years ago).  I did further research--it turns out that it happens in humans, and other species--the most common denominator in the US  is opossums carrying a protozoan that can be passed to the pregnant does (something like Toxoplasmosis from cats).   The kids are called "water babies" and have large amounts of accumulated amniotic fluid retained and stored under the skin, making them look like water balloon versions of goat kids.  The swollen kids are so large that they have great difficulty being born, and therefore can cause the death of their unaffected siblings that are delivered after the affected kids--to my knowledge, no one knows why some kids out of a multiple pregancy are affected and others are not. 

My vet helped me with a plan after the 2nd kidding involving an Anasarka kid--the problem is that the kid has so much fluid exerting pressure on the lungs and internal organs that it cannot breath enough oxygen to survive.  He recommended giving Lasix injections to get the live kids (swollen ones) to shed fluid quickly--sorry, can't remember the dosage--check with your vet.  This worked wonders on the 3rd kidding--the affected kid, although it was swollen and a hard pull, peed volumes after the injection, and shrank to the size of a normally large kid within an hour or two.  The kid and its siblings developed normally, and all three does involved had normal pregnancies/kiddings with the same or related bucks afterwards.  I have to disagree with Dr. Smith on this one, and believe this birth defect is caused by an organism picked up by the pregnant doe. 
Carol DeLobbe
Bon Joli Farm
*****************************************************************
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 22:03:46 -0600
   From: <rsfboers@inu.net>
Subject: Re: Chlamydia

My understanding with chlymidia is that the doe has to become infected prior to getting pregnant...the infection does not become active until after the pregnancy takes place.....In other words a weanling or yearling doe picks up the organism from grazing contaminated ground, carries it until she becomes pregnant and then will either abort the first or second pregnancy after infection and is usually fine from thereon......works very similar to bangs in cattle whereby the cow aborts the first calf and usually has no trouble thereafter.....Infected does shed the organism in vaginal discharges for a few days prior to abortion and for something like 9 to10 days after
abortion. It is my understanding that you can't prevent does already infected from aborting even with treatment but treatment will keep uninfected does from picking up the organism. Chlamydia usually aborts in the last 2 to 3 weeks of pregnancy. Does can be vaccinated 60 days prior to breeding season. The tetracyclines are the drugs of choice for treatment.....Terramycin in the water can help with this. The diagnosis for chlamydia is made from the placenta material or aborted fetus....

The drouth stress on what little vegetation there is including a lack of Vitamin A in conjunction with the wild weather swings we have been having are causing some of these abortion problems. A friend who runs a large
commercial herd told me just recently that they were having some abortion problems.....They have their feed mixed so had the amount of Vit A doubled in the feed which seems to have solved that problem for them.

Peggy Taylor
Rocky Springs Farm
Huntington, Texas
*******************************************************************
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:21:45 -0600
   From: "Anita Janes" <carpidiemgoats@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: please help doe in trouble

I also was told not to use Imodium on the goats.. and baytril is NEVER to be used on any animal
that stands even a remote chance of ending up in the food chain...If  you don't have anything else.. and can't or don't want to use chemicals... use ground cinnamon and make a ball out of it with a tiny bit of water... just about everyone has it in their cabinets...it will stop scours faster than even Scour Halt....
AJ
************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:29:12 -0600
   From: Jannette <rwood@brazosnet.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Banamine/ Sick kid, Connie Ross Please!!

Laura Giezen wrote:
Connie - I have another doeling that is sick.  She is just off feed and standing around.. not acting like a kid should be.  I gave her 3cc penn orally, 3 cc CD antitoxin orally, and baking soda and water.  No fever and no other symtoms to go on.  I lost a doeling 2 weeks ago acting the same way and was unable to save her.  Towards
the end, she was thrashing her head around and crying.  Can you suggest anything else... have a call into the vet and waiting to hear back.

Laura Giezen
Cherry Creek Boer Goats

--- In The_Boer_Goat@yahoogroups.com, "Coni Ross" wrote:

Flunixamine Megulamine is Banamine. It is the same, regardless of brand.
You need to know why the kid died, not just treat pain. If it died in such pain, I would suspect Enterotoxemia.
Saving kids with Enterotoxemia: I give 10cc oral Penicillin (to kill bacteria topically in the gut) 5-7cc  Sq of Penicillin  depending on kid size. 5-7cc CD antitoxin SQ depending on body size of kid,  15-20cc
Pepto Bismol oral with the Penicillin. Banamine per body weight-1cc/100lbs. For young kids, I use an allergy or insulin syringe, it is 1/10th of a cc per 10lbs. Pepto Bismol is antibacterial, anti-gas, antacid, so it works to
reduce pain, acidosis, and inhibits reproduction of the bacteria causing the problem. Penicillin is the drug of choice for Clostridial species bacteria, which includes the bacteria that cause Enterotoxemia. Coni

Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197
***************************************************************

Vicki <skidmarkme59_98@yahoo.com> wrote:
  I have some bottle babies that I have been taken care of and with this crazy weather we have had the last week or so I have a couple of babies with a rattle in the chest and coughing.. We have gone from the weather being 40 a couple of days to dropping to -10 now back up to 40. So i know the weather is not help me out here. They are about 6 to 8 weeks old.. need to know what kind of treatment to do for them..I am sure I have one on the way to pneumonia. The good thing is they are all still eating and no fevers..YET..Please HELP..I have 8 of them left here to fed.. Vicki

WWW.lazyravenranch.com

Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 07:36:13 -0800 (PST)
   From: Kathryn Davis <kdkarbon@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bottle Babies with Rattle in Chest

I just went through that cough with several of my bottle kids...
  
  I went to the vet and got the excenel and gave the ones coughing 5 days of that.  Dosage was 1 cc per 35#... broke it down and gave the ones weighing 8#  0.25 cc (point 25)of excenel for 5 days.  My bigger kid (around 50#) got  1 2/10 cc of excenel for 6 days.  I gave (please forgive me group) the shots IM as the babies move SO much. Used the small needle and syringe - 1cc with 10ths marked.
  He is still coughing after he takes a bottle, but there is no rattle. So with Mr. Glutton, I think he is probably still asperating a little milk at bottle time. But his lungs are clear and he does not "rattle".
 
Kathryn D
  
*******************************************************************

Subject:[The_Boer_Goat] pneumonia
  
  Pasturella hemolytica, and Haemophilus Somnus can kill in as short a time as 5 hours. The goat does not act sick until it is so septic it is almost dead. Toxins produced by these two organisms kill the kidneys, and liver before the goat has any real symptoms at all. Pasturella multocida is the one that makes the goat just quit eating, and shrink.
When you see them standing with the head down or level, tail down or level, reluctant to walk or move, quit eating then suspect multocida. They do not necessarily have fever, and they do not always have a snotty
nose. If you watch them when you try to catch the goat it will use intercostal muscles (between ribs) to breathe, and have nasal flaring. This is the one that causes irreparable damage to lung if not treated aggressively, and fast. I use at least 10cc Polyserum every 3 days, and Nuflor at 6ccSQ/100lbs SQ for a first dose, and 3cc/100 SQ every day after that for at least 4-5 days. If you do not treat every day, the likelihood of relapse is great, and lung damage or death usually occurs on the second round.
  

************************************************************************
Here is a email I saved from Coni Ross. I saved about 5 kids about 2 years ago with this treatment. Hope this helps.

Floppy kid was first seen here about 10 years ago. Texas A&M said most kids come in with full bellies and are comatose or semi comatose. I think someone tube fed them with out treatment, and there is no peristalsis to carry the food on down the digestive tract.
What is most commonly seen if the kid is awake: kid is very thin, and hungry, but can not nurse, even if it tries. The doe stands over the kid with her udder strutted. Gait of kid is cross legged, drunken, wobbly. Sometimes they have a wet nose, and a respiratory rattle, but not always. Sometimes they have a bit of dark scours, but not a lot. They have a peculiar smell, at least I can smell it.


I give the Penicillin orally to kill the causative bacteria in the gut with a topical treatment. The Thiamin is mixed with the penicillin, and is imperative to recovery. The neurological signal is electrical from brain to body part. The signal travels from cell membrane to cell membrane on thiamin and glucose. The neurological system just gradually shuts down from lack of both thiamin and glucose since the kid is unable to nurse. That is why they go from wobbly to comatose.
I treat comatose kids a little different. I give each kid 5cc orally of 50% Dextrose, and the floppy treatment: 2cc long-acting penicillin, and 500mg thiamin orally. I wait about 3 hours, and reassess the kid. Many times they are awake, but not strong enough to stand and nurse. I do not fill that
belly with milk, as peristalsis may not be working yet. I give them a little revive mixed 50:50 with water, usually just 20cc or so. I do not give sodium bicarb at all. If treated correctly, and caught soon, they recover well.
The longest recovery I have seen was 4 days, and that was an angora kid that was comatose, and near death. Her dam stood over her the entire time, and when she was still unable to nurse on day 2, I milked her dam and tube fed her with 8 oz milk. I continued the treatment for 4 days before she stood and nursed on her own. Floppy kid is floppy kid. I have even seen it in some calves. Coni

Coni Ross
CR Ranch
***********************************************************************


From: "Kay" <kdoby@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: doe in trouble update

Revive was made by Coni Ross and this is her recipe: She has several for different types of treatment, but the one for general use is:

  1 bottle 50% Dextrose, 20cc B complex, 5cc B12,  2cc 500mg/ml thiamin.
  If you have supplies on hand, this will make a little more than 500cc of Revive, and it will cost around $2.50.
  If this is intended for pregnancy toxemia does, you need to add a bottle of Amino Acid solution (not the
  concentrate, it has too much potassium), and 2 grams of Ascorbic Acid. I use different recipes for different illnesses, but this is the basic one.
  50% Dextrose is very concentrated sugar, and is metabolized instantly by the goat. Propylene glycol doesn't work well on goats. For show animals, I mix it 50:50 with water, and then mix a Tbs. of Calf pac in it. If you drench with this the goat feels better almost instantly, and will eat and drink.  I use it on newborns with floppy kid, or kids that are chilled.
These supplies can be bought almost anywhere. I buy The supplies by the case. If you do, the 50% dextrose will cost less than $2.00 a bottle.  Amino Acid solution is similar cost. The B Complex can be bought anywhere, but B12, Thiamin and Ascorbic Acid are RX. Coni
  *******************************************************************
Subject: RE: Pregnant Does dying 2-3 weeks before kidding

Julie,

It sounds as though you may be having problems with pregnancy toxemia.

Pregnancy Toxemia (ketosis) is a potentially fatal condition that can affect pregnant does in their last five weeks of pregnancy, or shortly after freshening. Ketosis, if detected early, can be treated successfully, but mortality is high if not detected early.

Pregnancy toxemia is a nutritional deficiency - not that you're not feeding them well, but you could possibly be feeding them too well.  Goats that are kept too fat are just as apt as those not fed enough.  Ketosis usually
affects does within five weeks before their kidding date. Symptoms include dullness or depression, and not eating well. Symptoms will progress to general weakness, not walking, or walking oddly. These symptoms can rapidly progress, and cause the doe to sit down, and be unable to rise. Does reaching this stage may have reached an irreversible stage of the condition.

Ketosis can be treated successfully if detected early. Urine tests, such as Keto-check, are generally accurate. However, it is best to suspect ketosis anytime a pregnant doe behaves oddly, or is sitting down more than usual.
Treatment usually consists of giving the doe propylene glycol, which is non-toxic. It is therefore acceptable to give the doe propylene glycol if symptoms indicate the condition, but the doe is unable to be tested.

Prevention is the best way to avoid the condition. This includes top dressing the feed of does in late pregnancy with sugar or molasses. Molasses can also be added to the goats' water.

Revive

1 bottle 50% Dextrose

20cc B complex

5cc B12

2cc 500 mg/ml Thiamin

(This will make 500 cc of Revive)

If this is intended for pregnancy toxemia does, add a bottle of Amino Acid solution (not the concentrate, it has too much potassium), and 2 grams of Ascorbic Acid.

 

If you drench with this the goat feels better almost instantly, and will eat and drink.

This is also good to use on newborns with floppy kid, or kids that are chilled.


 ***********************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: dose for epinephrine

Yes, use an insulin or allergy syringe, and give 1cc/100lbs. For a 10 lb kid, that would be .1cc, and for a 5 lb kid, that would be .05cc.
Insulin and allergy syringes are clearly marked, so half of a 10th would make it right for a   5 lb kid. Coni
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197

************************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Cydectin

Very good post Michelle! This is true, no withdrawal for slaughter or for milk if given orally, or poured on. We have not had access to injectable Cydectin, and most goat raisers don't inject wormer, unless there is a problem with Meningeal worm, or mange, then Ivomec or Dectomax are used. Coni
 
Coni Ross

*******************************************************************
Pepto Bismol is very good. I use it to treat Enterotoxemia, bloat, and grain overload. It is antacid, antibacterial (bismuth inhibits replication of the bad bacteria) and anti gas.   I use it for scours mixed with Biosol (man is it ugly, but it works well). The Salicilates help sooth  pain.  It does drug test if you are going to a terminal
show with a wether, so if that is the case, use plain Kaolin Pectin mixed with Calf Pac.


Any time you kill normal gut bacteria to stop scours, be sure to replace it with Calf Pac. Coni
 
Coni Ross

******************************************************************
Drugs are controlled in some states more than others. Batril CAN be prescribed by a vet, for a sick breeding animal if he feels it is the only thing that will work. He can not just prescribe it casually, but it is his decision. For some of the more resistant Pseudomonas type pneumonias, it is the only thing that will work.
I would not state across the board, that Batril is now illegal. If you look at the data, it is no longer approved for chickens. Batril must be used with care, and on animals that will never be in the food chain. Culling will not always help prevent infection of susceptible animals. Animals may be susceptible because they are young, or because they are not nutritionally in good condition.


Nutrition is playing a large role in abortions, and other type infections right now in the South West US, because of the drought. Drought causes Vitamin A deficiency, which in turn causes immune insufficiency, abortion, inadequate lactation, fetal deformity, weak kids, lambs, calves that do not live very long, and infertility. The
primary source of Vitamin A is fresh green vegetation. In times of drought, supplements must be provided, which provide extra vitamin A. Vitamin AD&E can be given first 2cc IM, then  2cc orally once a week for
2 weeks, and it will greatly improve animal condition. Extra vitamin A may be added to feed, mineral, or water.
Imodium is a drug that slows peristalsis (movement of the gut to move food down the tract), and that is how it slows diarrhea. It is not recommended for ruminants because of the risk of Bloat and (paralytic ileus) bowel obstruction.
Pepto Bismol and Kao Pectate work mechanically to slow the contents of the gut, by thickening the contents.
The best treatment of scours is to treat the cause. Treating the cause, hydration, and support are the best treatments for scours. A culture of the diarrhea should be done if ordinary treatment does not cause
improvement in 24 hours. Any treatment that is going to work will show some improvement in 6-8 hours, and significant improvement in 24hours, or you are using the wrong product.


Animals that do not respond to worming, and treatment of scours with usual means may have Johne's.  Coni
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197
www.crranch.org

**********************************************************************
Subject: Prolapse

McKinley
Sorry I did not stay on very long last night, and I get email on digest, so I saw your post this am.
If the uterus can be pushed back in, coat it with powdered sugar, and put it back. Usually, once that happens, it will happen every time.  It is a genetic weakness in most cases, but can be aggravated by pregnancy
toxemia, because the doe metabolizes her own   muscle and fat to maintain the pregnancy. These does often have problems kidding because they do not have the uterine strength to push out kids.
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197
www.crranch.org
 ***********************************************************************
Subject: Re: Prolapse


Sugar will reduce swelling and help healing.  If you have a cut and put sugar on it, it will heal faster. 

Ann Stagner
Tornado Alley Nubians & Boers
Jacksonville, AR

*********************************************************************
Subject: Re: Prolapse

Sugar draws out moisture and helps shrink it. It also draws out moisture from bacteria and helps disinfect.
Think about a bowl of fruit with sugar on it - it will make juice because the sugar will draw the water from the fruit.
Gayla Roberts
Always Enough Ranch
Acampo, California

**********************************************************************
From: "Barbara" <jamesa@mrtc.com>
Subject: Re: Immodium use in goats

Hi,
I never use Immodium in goats it can cause the peristaltic action of the gut to slow or stop leading to death.
Barbara Howard
jamesa@mrtc.com
www.geocities.com/goatlady43
Capri-Medic with goat 911
Call anytime 606-522-3388
I am not a Vet
This is the way I treat my goats what works for me

**********************************************************************
Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 06:02:42 -0600
   From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Batril

Oh come on! Who said that Batril was for every day use? NO one! But it is a good drug to save a valuable animal in an emergency when nothing else works. Even in humans, there are drugs that are saved for
emergencies, because they are dangerous, and can kill the kidneys and liver if used in too high a dose, or for a prolonged period. That does not mean we do not use those drugs when it is necessary, the drugs are
just used with caution.
If those people  were loosing kids to pneumonia, why didn't they vaccinate for pneumonia? Vaccination is much more effective, than treating for pneumonia. Also, goats that have pneumonia often do not grow out well, because of damage to the lungs by the infection. So saying that the drug stunted the kids, sounds to me like speculation, or assumption. There are so many factors involved with how kids grow, that the assumption that it was the antibiotic is ludicrous. I did not see any information about this drug that indicated skeletal problems. There are environmental problems that can cause skeletal problem, including rickets, toxic plants, viral infections.
I do agree that some of the drugs prescribed for ADHD do cause stunting of human children. We have discussed that on this list before. Those drugs like Ritalin are speed, and suppress appetite. Children that do not eat well do not grow well.  That does not have anything  to do with Batril.
Again: if you have a very expensive animal, you do not want to loose it, Batril is a last ditch drug, and it does work. Coni
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197
www.crranch.org
 *********************************************************************
From: "Miskin Meadows" <emerald@hawk.igs.net>
Subject: Baby with swollen feet/legs.

Hi Everyone,

I have a baby here born 3 days ago today and she has swollen feet/legs.
I will start at the beginning. Baby born through the night, when we got to her her ear and both feet were frozen. Brought her in the house gave her colostrum to start and some coffee to get her up and more alert. Soaked her
in a nice warm bath for about an hour always keeping the temp warm enough for a slow thawing of the legs. Legs thawed, fed baby a little colostrun all day long , no fevers, happy baby. Two days of swollen legs and baby is still happy, eating well and trying to walk around but you can see it is difficult, then today one of the feet sprung a leak, just at the top of the hoof where it splits.
Wound is oozing Clear fluid but tinged with blood, bad smelling, but constantly leaking all day slowly.

Tonight I notice it is still leaking but the swelling has gone down in the leg and the foot is getting thinner again slowly. Other foot is still huge and tight. I want to open the foot a little to help relieve the pressure and
allow this foot to heal as well but am afraid to try this without opinions of others who have been there and had to do that.

Am giving baby Traumeel ( herbal anti-inflammatory and pain killer) 3 times a day. I have some herbal anti-biotic (Vibactra Plus from Amber technologies) and will start her on these tonight.

Can anyone offer some advice on how to treat this any differently. We are Organic and do not wish to give meds unless we see the baby is in definite pain. We have some Propen LA if that becomes necessary as well but try not to give that as well until we must for babies health.

Regards,
Bev & John
Miskin Meadows Farm
http://www.hawk.igs.net/~emerald/index.html
Owner VankleekHill_Freecycle
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/VankleekHill_Freecycle

************************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: lamb with frostbite

I would give that lamb  3cc Polyserum, 2cc CD antitoxin, and 3-5cc SQ Penicillin. The edema is  from tissue death from the frost bite. The fluid can be drained with a small incision at the hoof, or with a 16
gauge needle. I would clean the area with 7% Iodine, and leave it on, then drain the fluid with gentle pressure. Healing will take place faster if the fluid can drain. Keep the area clean, and  repeat the Polyserum, and CD antitoxin every  2 weeks, and penicillin as necessary to prevent infection. The greatest risk is Tetanus, and Penicillin is the drug of  choice for that.
 
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197
www.crranch.org

********************************************************************

From: "luckygoat3" <luckygoat@gmail.com>
Subject: reynoldsburg ohio results

As most of you know i took a dead kid down to the ODA, the results were rather interesting and very helpful.  It's nothing infectious or contagious.  Actually it was when i disbudded her i fried the brain, but it took about two weeks for the symptoms to show up.  There was abcesses on the brain and a bacterial infection, which is the cause of death.

Susie

***********************************************************************

From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Revive ingredients

B12, thiamin, and injectable Ascorbic acid are vet Rx. 
I do not use Ascorbic acid in regular Revive, only in the one for pregnancy toxemia, because it is a free radical grabber. Amino Acid solution is available in most catalogs, and Tractor Supply. It is cheap if purchased by the case, and it will keep. If you have the concentrate, you use only 50cc, as the concentrate has too much potassium.
I do not use CPMK in does with Pregnancy toxemia because of the Potassium content. Coni
 
Coni Ross

***********************************************************************

From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: buck with leg mites

Common things happen commonly. I would treat him for mange with 2cc/100lbs of Ivomec injectable given orally. I treat the skin topically with Prolate dip 1oz/gal of water. SCRUB the affected area. Often, only one treatment is necessary with the prolate, but the Ivomec needs to be given once a week until the skin is clear, or it will come back. It is contagious.
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197
www.crranch.org

***********************************************************************

Subject: Re: Revive ingredients

*Magic Recipe (PM)
*1 pint of corn oil
1 pint of molasses
2 pints of Karo syrup
I warm it just a bit.
Give 2-3 ounces 3-4 times a day.

*Revive *(AM)
1 bottle 50% Dextrose
20cc B complex
5cc B12
2cc 500mg/ml thiamin.
This will make a little more than 500cc of Revive, and it will cost around $2.50. This will get them eating and drinking.
For pregnancy toxemia does:
Add a bottle of Amino Acid solution (not the concentrate, it has too much potassium)
and 2 grams of Ascorbic Acid

I usually try and give CD&T vaccines before they kid by at least 3 weeks, and worm them the day they kid...
give the doe that just kids.a bucket of hot water with molasses in it….usually about 3 gal of water
to 1 to 3 cups of molasses..

***********************************************************************

The ascorbic acid that I found on-line is a powder.  When I called my vet to talk to her about it, she said it would work the same as the liquid.  Here is a great website that I found to help convert measurements  http://www.cafecreosote.com/Reference/equivalents.php3     Two grams of ascorbic acid is equal to 0.42 teaspoons.

Wendy

***********************************************************************

From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Ascorbic acid/viamin C

If you buy the injectable, it is usually 4cc of the 500mg/ml vitamin C. If you need to use over the counter product, you can use the crushed pills from the grocery store. I prefer the injectable, as I like to give it IM to does with mastitis, it really helps healing.
James: Amino acid solution comes in a 500ml(cc) bottle. If it is the regular, use one bottle per 500ml bottle of 50% Dextrose, and add the vitamins. If it is the concentrate Amino Acid Solution, use only 50cc per 500ml bottle of 50% Dextrose. I do not add water to the Revive until I am ready to give it, and I mix it 50:50 with water.  I prefer to keep the undiluted product in a dark place, like the kitchen pantry. If you need to warm it, you set it in a pan of hot water, DO NOT MICROWAVE.
Revive: for pregnancy toxemia
500ml 50% Dextrose
500 ml regular Amino Acid solution (50cc if it is the concentrate)
200ml Calcium Gluconate]
 20ml B complex
2 grams (1,000 mg) of Ascorbic Acid (vitamin C)
5 ml B12
5 ml 500mg/ml Thiamin
 
For regular use, omit the Amino Acid solution, calcium Gluconate, and Ascorbic acid.
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606

**********************************************************************
Subject: [The_Boer_Goat] Oxytocin

  I do not use Lutylase or Estrumate to induce labor. I would prefer to use Dexamethasone.
  I do use Oxytocin when a doe is in labor, and not dilating.  I have had does with multiple pregnancy and in labor, but with no progress in dilation of the cervix.  In this case, many times, the labor just stops, or is not strong enough to open the cervix. I will repeat: I STAY WITH THE DOE. I give the Banamine first, and stimulate with Oxytocin until I can get the cervix open enough to go get the kids.


I have seen too many does go to the vet, who said that the doe was not in labor, and to wait, because there were no hard contractions. I know when a doe is in labor, and yet the vet refused to do a C section, and told the owner that she was 'not ready''. Two days later: dead 3 kids, and dead doe. How many times this has happened, I can't tell you, I have seen too many does with pregnancy toxemia die like this, because the vet would not do a C section, because the doe was not recognized to be in labor, and did not seem critical. So, do as you like. I get the kids out myself, and save my own doe.
  
  Coni Ross
  CR Ranch
  13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
  Blanco, Texas 78606
  512-496-3197

  From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: MLS tub

The label calls it ORWIG'S MLS No. 3 cattle cake.  It does come in the smaller, 125 lb goat tub, but I get the cattle tub, 200 lbs,  because the ingredients are great for goats, and it lasts my horde longer. There is a toll free number on the label: 888-766-tubs. I bet they can tell you where you can get them in your area. They do contain too much copper for sheep. Coni
 
Coni Ross

***********************************************************************
Subject: milk production

If the doe is not in good condition when her kids are born, she will give less milk. I don't know where you are, but right now in Texas and other south and south west states, we  have a severe drought going on. Green vegetation is the primary source for vitamin A, and without it, does abort, do not give enough milk, breed but do not conceive. I increased the Vitamin A to my big commercial herds, and they are doing much better.
Worming the does will help, but addition of alfalfa and a small amount of whole corn will help make milk too.
Probiotics help by enabling the doe to make better use of what she eats, and that will help her to give more milk. Coni
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606
512-496-3197

***********************************************************************

From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: kid with fever, limp

I would suspect joint ill. Joint ill can occur soon after birth from infection arising in the umbilical cord, or later from a cut or scratch that you may not even see.
Check the leg the goat is limping on: is it swollen at one or more joints? Check other joints, and is there swelling or tenderness? If so, then it is likely joint ill.


Joint ill needs to be treated aggressively, or the animal will be permanently crippled, stunted, and die..
I have saved kids with joint ill by treating aggressively with very high doses of Nuflor (6ccSQ on day one, and 3ccSq/day for  7-10 days), Penicillin !0cc SQ on day one, Polyserum 7-10cc SQ every 4 days, and Banamine for it's antiendotoxin effects. The issue here is to treat the disease, or loose the kid . Sometimes you loose them anyway, the pus gets into the pericardium of the heart, in the peritoneum, and in all the joints.
 
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325

***********************************************************************
Subject: how to figure expected kidding date

I use a simple method. If the doe was bred Oct. 27, add 5 mos., and subtract 5 days. The earliest date would be March 22. Coni
 
Coni Ross

*************************************************************
  From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Biosol

Biosol will kill coccidiosis.  It works very fast. Sulfa drugs are the first recommended treatment, but Biosol will work too, and faster. Neomycin is used to sterilize the gut prior to surgery. It kills everything except Salmonella.
Depending on the dose you use of Sulfa drugs, you must usually treat for 5 days. Biomycin will often do the job in one treatment, but at least one treatment a day for  3 days is recommended.
I don't have coccidiosis, I have Rumensin in my feed, and for the commercial goats, I use the cattle Rumensin blocks.
Biosol 3cc oral mixed with 10cc of Pepto Bismol is excellent for scours of any kind.
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325

************************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: drug measurements

1 drop=1/10th cc
1 ml =1cc
5cc=1 teaspoon
=1 tablespoon or 1/2 oz.
30cc=1 oz or 2 tablespoons
1 gram =1,000mg
Drug strength is  on the bottle it will tell you how many milligrams (mgs) are in 1 ml (1cc). So for instance you have Thiamin 500mg/ml and
you want to give   750 mg, you give 1 1/2cc.
 
I will forward a simple formula for figuring drug doses to Holly for her to post.


Coni Ross

*****************************************************************

From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: doe in labor

When the 'bubble passes' you should have active, strong contractions within a few minutes. I would automatically suspect the kid is not in correct position to be born. I would glove up, and go check out the
situation.
 
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325

***************************************************************

From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: pregnant doe limping

When a heavy bred doe limps, or walks like she is on egg shells, she likely has a calcium deficiency. I would add 20cc Calcium Gluconate to her Revive . I mix  it for pregnant does different than for non pregnant
animals.
Revive for Pregnant does:
500 Ml bottle of 50% Dextrose
500ml bottle of amino acid solution (if the concentrate, use only 50cc)
200ml calcium Gluconate
20 ml B complex
2 grams Ascorbic acid (vit. C)
5 ml B12 (3,000 mcg/ml)
5 ml 500mg/ml Thiamin
Store in a clean jar, in a dark cool place.
I usually give Revive according to the doe's requirements: A large doe in serious toxemia: limping with swollen feet, or stained tail, loosing weight on her top, listless, loss of appetite,  will need to be treated individually. Does that are sleepy, or won't stand are at risk of dying. I give the serious doe more Revive: 200cc mixed with 200cc water every 2-3 hours until she is more awake. I usually reduce the amount of Revive when the doe is more alert, and or starts eating. I add Calf Pac 2-3 scoops/day in the morning revive, and offer sweet feed, with an extra handful of corn, and free choice alfalfa.
I give the doe 8-10 oz of Magic at bedtime to hold her the night. A smaller doe will not need as much.
Coni

*******************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: Electrolytes/ Revive

I do not recommend giving extra electrolytes to a doe with pregnancy toxemia. The Amino acid solution has electrolytes in it, and more potassium is not needed. Does with pregnancy toxemia can get too much potassium, and there is an adequate amount in molasses to make sure the electrolytes are correct. They just don't need extra. If you think they need more fluids, add more water  to the revive. Coni
 
Coni Ross

********************************************************************
From: texann98BG@wmconnect.com
Subject: Re: Digest Number 5616

Bev,

Have you checked for chlamydia?  It will cause does to abort or have kids early, which means a low birth weight, and most will not survive.  You can give them a shot for it (available under a sheep label).  It sounds like that more than some problem with the buck. 

I know last year in Texas there was a big problem with it. 

Ann Giardini
Gateridge Farms

*********************************************************************

From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: late term abortions/weak kids

Most of the time, this is Chlamydia, or Leptospirosis. Toxoplasmosis can
cause it, but is  less likely.
Send placenta and dead kid to the vet for culture and sensitivity. I would start the does on  4cc Biomycin/100lbs SQ on day one, and continue on days 2-10 with Terramycin soluble powder in the water  at
500-750 mg/head/day.  This will treat Chlamydia and Leptospirosis, and will not hurt them. Pregnancies that are alive can be saved. The ones that are dead will go ahead and abort, but  you can save the live ones.
Q fever, Arthrogyroposis, and  Akabane (Akabane and Arthrogyroposis are the same) are  viral origin, and will not show up if the vet does not do a viral check. These are usually spread by gnats that sting/bite the goat. You would likely see some deformed kids, or mummified kids.
Be sure to allow at least one gallon of water per doe, and mix it in a tub that will hold enough for all the goats to drink. Example: you have a  20 gallon tub for 20 does. Mix fresh solution each day, and turn off
the water. Do not add more water until that is consumed. Make sure there is  no other source of water.
Toxoplasmosis can be prevented if you have Rumensin in the feed, mineral, or the blocks out. Toxoplasma Gondii is a protozoa, similar to coccidiosis, and is killed in the digestive tract by Rumensin before it
can invade the lining of the  digestive tract, and become a problem.
 
Coni Ross

************************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: ascorbic acid

I use the injectable Ascorbic acid in the Revive, but the  dissolved pills can be used. I like the injectable because it can be used to help treat mastitis. I get mine from the vet.
 
Coni Ross

*********************************************************************
From: "Coni Ross" <crranch@texas.net>
Subject: how to drench goats

First, get a drench gun A turkey baster would be a last resort for me. Most of the livestock supply companies sell a simple cheap drench gun.


Put the nozzle of the drench gun at the back of the mouth, by the back teeth, on the outside of the teeth, next to the cheek. If you do this, the goat  has to swallow, and the liquid is in back of her tongue so she can't spit it out. It will not choke her if you do it this way either.
Hold her head up, not level or down. Let gravity help you.
Tie her head if you must, but she needs the drench or she will die.  
 
Coni Ross
CR Ranch

**********************************************************************



Share with your friends:
1   2   3   4




The database is protected by copyright ©essaydocs.org 2020
send message

    Main page