Subject: Re: Fw: Your New Goats

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Subject: Re: Fw: Your New Goats

Care or your new goats.

THE FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT THING I can tell you for  your goats is to have proper protection from predators.   They are  completely helpless in a predator situation.  Coyotes are everywhere, but  domestic dogs are every bit as bad, in fact WORSE, because they are  domesticated, and have no fear of humans or
coming close up to your  place........I feel a guardian Dog is the best protection you can get.  Make sure you get your dog from people that raise them with their goats.   Get names of people they have sold their guard dog to.  and then call  them.....find out how that dog has done.  A good guard dog is worth his weight in gold.  Get a Large Guard Dog from reliable  people. The goats will need shade and fresh hay  daily. They will need some kind of shelter,  facing away from the North to protect from the wind and  rain.

ONLY buy MEDICATED goat feed.  This medicated feed will  have a coccicidious ( an internal parasite ) preventative, and also a  preventative for Urinary Calculi. Ammonium Chloride is what the medicated feed  will have to prevent this.  Overfeeding, and dirty water will cause  Urinary Calculi.  It occurs mostly in young bucklings, but it  can happen to older, ( any age ) bucks.  If not treated their bladder  will burst, and its a horrible death.  Watch your bucks.  Make sure  when they urinate its a steady stream.  If the urine only dribbles   and they look like they are straining to urinate, immediately get them to the vet. They need a salt block and a Mineral  block
They need to be wormed and given CD/T vaccinations on a  regular basis
.First worming at 3 weeks old.....continue worming every 3  weeks till they are weaned.   Then you need to have some  fecals run to determine how often your goats need to be  wormed
.   Clear Wormers  :
Ivomec injectable to be given orally.............1cc per 30  lbs.
Cydectin to be given orally.........................1cc per  20 lbs.
These clear wormers will get all worms except the tapeworm. Ivomec and Cydectin are VERY SAFE  wormers.  Always go OVER when estimating weight.  If you give one  bit too little, not only will it NOT touch the worms, but will build a  resistance to the wormer
.For the tape worms use a  white wormer, such as Panacure, Safeguard, Valbazen (NOT on a  pregnant goat )  You triple the cattle  dosage and do for three straight days. I usually  use a white wormer one or 2 times a  year.
They must be vaccinated with CD/T ....that is :
  Clostridium Perfringens Types C & D with  Tetanus Toxoid. It can be ordered from all supply houses. This vaccination covers many things.....mainly over-eating, which can  cause bloat and enterotoxemia and they will die if not treated immediately. The vaccination helps to  prevent......but it will still happen if goats are  overfed.
Goats of all ages are always given 2 ccs and a booster 3  weeks later...........then every year.  If your goat is pregnant, worm and vaccinate her 3 weeks before kidding.  That way, her babies will  be protected through her
colostrum till they are 12 weeks old.  Then the babies are vaccinated at 12 weeks old,  and a booster 3 weeks later. If you have a bottle baby you need to vaccinate at 3,6,12, and 16 weeks, then once a  year they get the booster.  ( always 2 ccs ) I think it is a smart idea to booster with the CD/T every 6 months.  (not wait a year. )

 It is VERY IMPT. you vaccinate the pg doe 3 weeks  before kidding with the CD/T..........this way her babies will be protected  till 12 weeks of age through the Mothers colostrum, and then when the babies  are 12 weeks if left on the Mother, they should be given their first CD/T  vaccination, followed in three weeks by the  booster.
ALSO VERY IMPT.  ON BOTTLE BABIES.......worm every 3  weeks, and do the CD/T vaccinations, at 4, 8, 12 and 16  weeks...........also you must treat 5 straight days with Albon ( 1cc per  10 lbs ) double dose the first day.  This must be done at 3 weeks, and  again at 6 weeks.  You can put the liquid Albon and wormer straight  in their bottles.....Babies are VERY prone to coccicidiosis (an internal  parasite ) and worms.

CL  Vaccinations:
Case Bac CL vaccination be given ONLY as a  preventative to be given EVERY 6 MONTHS.
Autogenous CL vaccine.  Given once a yr.  This vaccine can be given to a positive goat, and it will  suppress any future abscesses. This vaccine can also be given to a negative goat as a preventative. The Autogenous vaccine is given once a year.
Both CL vaccines need a booster three weeks after the original (always 2 ccs ). Safe to give a PG doe.  If given 3 weeks before kidding, babies  will be protected till 12 weeks old through their Mothers colostrum. Then  they are old enough to get their first CL vaccination followed in three  weeks by the booster.
Once a goat has pneumonia, chances are they will get it again, and it  will be a more severe case than the first.
 Poly Bac B  vaccination...........can be ordered from Supply houses.
The bottle says 2 ccs...........that’s for cattle.  For goats, only need to give 1 cc.......followed in three weeks by a booster , again of  1 cc.
If given to the PG doe three weeks before kidding, babies will be protected for 12 weeks through their Mothers Colostrum...........then at 12  weeks, babies can be given their first vaccination, followed in three weeks  by the

The gestation period is 153 days.....(give or take 5 days  either way)
I would not breed a Boer doe till she is at least 8 months old and close to 100 lbs.  If she breeds at 8 months, she will kid when she is 13 months old. You must worm and  vaccinate 3 weeks before she kids.  That way her babies will be protected  till 12 weeks old on the vaccination, but you still must worm the babies  starting at 3 weeks.

The worse thing you can do to a pg doe is to  OVERfeed.,  It will cause many, many birthing  problems.

After the doe kids you MUST worm her.  You did it 3 weeks before she kidded, but you must do it again.  Kidding causes  stress, and stress brings out the worms.
Make sure the afterbirth comes after the last kid is born.  The afterbirth MUST come out, or she will become toxic and  die.  Have your vet sell you a bottle of Oxytocin.....given at the rate  of 1cc per 100 lbs.  If she has not
lost that afterbirth in an hour, I would give her the Oxytocin injection (SQ).....You can safely give it every  hour for about 5 hours after she kids.  If she still has not dropped the  afterbirth, call your vet, or me.

If triplets, or a difficult birth, I always give 10 ccs  Penicillin to the Mother for 5 straight days and ALWAYS a probiotic.  I like Calf Pac for a probiotic, but if you  have none....;go to the grocery store and buy UNflavored
Yogurt.  It MUST be CULTURED.  This is a very good probiotic.  It will put the good bacteria back in the stomach.

After the doe kids, she will be very, very thirsty and  hungry..  Hang the water bucket high enough so a baby can't fall in or  jump in.  Many a baby has drowned because of low water  buckets.

As soon as they are born, dip their navel cord in 7% Iodine. Open the teats on the Mother.  Many  times they are clogged, and as hard as the baby tries to nurse, no milk will  come.....therefore always make sure a steady good stream is coming from her  teats. Make SURE the babies are up and nursing  within 30 or 40 minutes after being born.  They must have10 to 15% of  their body weight in colostrum (first Mothers milk) in the first 24 hours of  life.....better to get that in the first 12 hours of life.........If they do not get this "life saving " colostrum their chances of survival are  slim..........and even if they don't die, they will not have a good immune  system, and will not be a healthy animal as a  rule.
The doe will need to be fed MORE while her babies are nursing.  ALWAYS leave babies on Mothers till 3 months old .  If you  pull them before then, you will not have the good weight and growth you should  have.
Make sure you separate the bucklings at 3 months.  They are capable of breeding at three months, and you sure don't want that  buckling breeding his Moma or  siblings.
If I keep a doe baby, I never take her from her Mother.  Mom will kick her off when she’s ready. Longer than three months nursing, can only do her good.  If you take them away too soon not only will it stress the babies, but also the Mother.  Anytime goats are  stressed, it opens them up to all sorts of  "sickness"...............
ESSENTIALS YOU MUST HAVE ON HAND ( if breeding and  raising )
Baby Bottle and  nipple
  You will never know how often you might need the replacer Colostrum.  Trips or quads, and the Mother may not  have enough milk (colostrum )....or the Mother could die, or become sick, and  when sick they don't eat, and if they don't eat, they don't produce milk...You  must have this colostrum the first 12 hours of that babies life.....You can  order replacer Colostrum from most supply houses. It is called  COLOSTRX   ......It is made for baby calves, but it works on  goats.  I have lost count of how many babies I have raised with ONLY  the COLOSTRX.....I still have some does I raised around 7 to 9 years ago on nothing but the COLOSTRX.  Don't let anyone tell you it won't work..........IT WILL.  It is very inexpensive, and can be ordered  from most supply
houses.  Some vets even stock it.  Also the  COLOSTRX has an e-coli preventative in it.
  There are many brands of powdered milk replacer (made for calves) that you can get at most feed stores.  I will NOT use them.  It is too easy for a baby to bloat on them.  Of course, the best thing you can use is real milk from one of your does in milk.  Many,  many , many of us use a Milk Recipe that Sue Ann Nissen told us about years ago.   Yes, its a little pricey, but you never are going to have a  baby bloat, have enterotoxemia, or have diarrhea....They grow beautifully  on this recipe. As good or even better than if they were on their  Mothers.  And the best thing is ......its all at your nearest grocery.
1 gallon whole Milk
1 can Evaporated milk  ( not the real little can..the  medium can,..about 12 oz)
1 cup regular  buttermilk
Pour about a third of the milk out of the gallon and set  aside. Pour into the gallon the evaporated milk and the buttermilk. Then pour to the top of the gallon of milk what you set aside. Shake and warm.  They LOVE it.

 Epinephrine.....this is very, very important for you to have whenever giving ANY type injection.  It is given at 1 cc per 100 lbs.  Any goat given any injection at any age can form an allergic reaction.  ALWAYS have that injection drawn and in  your pocket when giving shots.  It is a life saver.  They, with a severe reaction, can die within 30 seconds.  I went over 10 years giving  all types of shots to100 plus goats yearly. Never had any problems whatsoever.  Then about 3 years ago, I had 3 allergic reactions in about 8 months time.  I saved 2 and lost one......This is  prescription  30 ml and only cost 4 dollars.  You must change  it every year.
Penicillin   5 ccs young goat, 10 ccs grown doe, 20 ccs LARGE grown buck
Polyserum (an immune booster)  5 ccs young goat, 10ccs grown doe........20 ccs LARGE  buck
These are not NEAR all the meds you need.  But it will at least  hold you till you can get to a vet.
Oxytocin 1 cc per 100  lbs.
7% Iodine (to dip navel cord of newborn)
ANY TIME, day or night, if you have a problem, do not  hesitate to call me. (979) 562-2309
I guarantee in writing when animals bought from my place,  they are disease free. NEGATIVE CL .........NEGATIVE  CAE

Judy and  David Muska
Registered Quality Boer Goats
Registered LGDs
(979)  562-2309

Here is Coni Ross' list of medicines:

                       Management of Goats


It is my opinion that 95% of death loss in goats is directly related to lack of knowledge and management skills.

First importance is to be ready for the animals. Adequate fencing is very important. There is nothing like hunting goats that don't know where they live because they are new. I prefer the sheep and goat net wire, that has 12" wide stays, spaced in a graduated fashion from ground to top, with the narrowest at the bottom, and 2" apart to 6" at the top. A goat that hangs her head in this can turn her head sideways, and get out of the fence. Square fencing with 6" squares is dangerous. They will get hung in it and you could find the goat dead, and if she is alive, you will be very tired of having to check fence all the time.

Electric fence is adequate if they are trained to it prior to putting them in pastures fenced with electric. I prefer at least a minimum of two wires, spaced at 8" off of the ground, and 18"-24" above that wire. Goats KNOW when it is off, and will take a stroll if it is off, or shorted out. I prefer to have permanent fences on perimeters, and electric cross fences. Electric wires can be used to augment existing barbwire fences.


Shelter: A three sided shed is fine for pasture situations. If no shelter is available, there should be heavy brush or wind break available. Barns that can be closed to retain heat may be necessary in colder climates. Be sure ventilation is adequate to prevent respiratory problems in the animals and yourself. Ammonia can be a real problem if the weather is cold for a prolonged period.


Water should be available at all times. In extremely cold weather, it is advisable to warm the water with heaters if necessary.  Animals that must drink icy water use the calories they consume to warm up after they drink cold water. This is expensive in terms of amount of feed necessary to maintain the animal's body condition, pregnancy, and lactation. Cold can precipitate pregnancy toxemia if the doe is carrying a multiple pregnancy, and is not drinking enough to aid the kidneys in the excretion of toxins produced by the pregnancy. It compounds the problem when feed consumed is used to produce warmth instead of maintaining the pregnancy, and body functions. Water is integral to all body functions, and must be kept as clean as possible.

Minerals: Calcium Phosphorus ratio should be 2:1 for optimum goat utilization, and prevention of urinary calculi.

Trace minerals are very important, mineral products should have adequate trace minerals added.  In some areas there is not enough Selenium, this trace is added at a minimum to mineral preparations, since Selenium can be toxic in excess. White muscle disease can be prevented by adequate Selenium. Injectable sources: MuSe, and BoSe are the most commonly used.  Usually 1cc IM of MuSe, and 2cc IM of BoSe  are an adult dose. Frequency of dosing, and dosing of newborns is dependent on the area, and deficiency of that area. Ask your local vet for dose recommendations for your area.  Selenium can be added to fertilizer of pastures at 4 grams per acre. It can be added to salt, or mineral supplements.

To prevent white muscle disease goats can be given 5 mg orally, or parenterally  (injected) 4 weeks prior to kidding. White muscle disease in it's severest form: kids so weak they never nurse, or die in a few days after birth. Kid may be given .5mg orally or parenterally within 2-4 weeks after birth, and then monthly if there is no other supplement for their dams.

Parasites:  Stomach worms can suck the blood of the goat causing acute anemia, and death when the goat appears to be in good body condition and fat.  The most common of these is Haemonchus contortus  (most common in summer), Osteragia circumcincta, O.trifurcata, Trichostrongylus axei ( more common in winter). An infection of Haemonchus can cause death in a short a time as one week when there is heavy infestation, with relatively few symptoms. The acute infection is characterized by edema usually starting under the jaw, and moving to chest, belly, and legs.  The eyelids will be white or very pale pink. Haemonchus does not cause scours. Treatment of the severe infection, when edema is present is done with care. A white wormer (these are less effective) should be used in a triple dose to kill some of the worms but not all. Anemia can be treated with molasses. Old fashioned blackstrap molasses has as much iron as many of the over the counter treatments, is safe, and has most of the
 constituents to help the goat with energy, and to feel better. Vitamin B12  2cc IM is recommended. Healthy goats produce their own B vitamins, but when they are sick, the rumen bacteria that perform this function are dead. B12, Cyanocobalamine is the center of the molecular structure of the red blood cell. Red cells can not be made in the bone marrow without it.

After 5-7 days, you can worm with Cydectin, which will kill all of the worms. Continue to treat for anemia. Replace rumen bacteria with live probiotics.

Goats not acutely ill can be wormed with a full dose of Cydectin or Ivomec orally. I use Cydectin 1cc/20 lbs orally, Ivomec cattle injectable at a dose of 2cc/100lbs orally.

Trichostrongylus will cause scours, weight loss, poor hair coat, and general loss of condition. They are treated as above. There are more stomach worms than presented here, but these can be treated with the above.

Tape worms: Monesia Expansa, is the most common tape worm of goats and sheep. The intermediate host is the mite that stings your arms when you handle fresh hay. The tape worm is not supposed to be pathogenic; however, I have seen tape worm infection cause severe scours in young kids, poor hair coat, weight loss, and emaciation. I usually use Synanthic to treat tape worms. I use it on pregnant does, and kids at double the cattle dose: 5cc/100 lbs orally. Dead tape worms can be seen in the feces in 24-48 hours. I recommend worming three days in a row to be sure of the worm kill. Valbazen will kill tape worms, but is not safe for pregnant animals.  Valbazen will kill liver flukes also, but again, is not safe for pregnant does. Safeguard is the only wormer currently approved for goats, and unfortunately it no longer is effective unless used at a triple dose three days in a row. Hook worms, Bunostomum Ttrigonocephalum, is significant in warmer climates, and can be controlled with Ivomec
 or Cydectin.

Liver fluke: Fasciola Hepatica- The intermediate hosts are aquatic snails, and slugs. Goats, sheep and cattle consume vegetation near water contaminated by encysted cercariae. Cattle can be asymptomatic, but sheep and goats with severe infection can die in 6 weeks from contamination. Symptoms are abdominal distension, edema, anemia. Flukes enter the liver capsule, and wander in the liver tissue destroying it as they go, causing hepatitis and liver failure. They migrate to the gall bladder and lay eggs.  Valbazen, or Ivomec plus are treatments.

Management to prevent or limit parasites:

Do a fecal to determine type and severity of worm infection.

Wormer should be administered at a dose that is for the largest goat in the group. Example: does range from 180-210 lbs, I worm them all for the heaviest goat.  Under dosing causes more problems by permitting some worms to live, that then are resistant to the wormer used.  Worm every goat in the group. Dry lot them in an area with dry hay for 24 preferably 48 hours to permit worms and eggs to be dumped into the dry lot, and not pasture. Put the goats into a fresh pasture. This will help to limit contamination of pastures.  Sanitation of barns, pens etc. is significant in the reduction of worm contamination. Quarantine all new goats for 7-10 days. Worm them for both tape worms, and stomach worms; then do a fecal before you turn them out. You do not want to contaminate your premises with resistant worms.

Hoof rot can be an issue in cold and or wet climates. Quarantine goats, trim feet, dip in chlorine bleach, or use Koppertox on the feet. Be sure there are no signs of hoof rot for the 7-10 days they are in quarantine. Vaccinate as needed for chronic conditions.

Lice can be a problem, but are treated by use of Ivomec, Cydectin, or Dectomax. Sucking lice are relatively easy to control. Chewing lice, as in the type angoras get are not easy to control, and dips are the most effective. Some pour-ons such as Cylence work well if goats are not in need of worming.

Coccidiosis is very significant in the goat population, and is one of the most significant causes of failure to thrive in young goats. Eimeria arloingi, E. christenseni, and E. ninakohlyakimovae are the most pathogenic in kid goats.

I prefer the use of Rumensin (monensin) for prevention. Rumensin is the one Ionophore that will pass through the milk of the dam, and protect that kid from having infection by the Eimeria spp.  Feed can be purchased that contains Rumensin, Sweetlix has a mineral that has Rumensin now, and is very palatable. Rumensin also enhances feed absorption, and feed efficiency at a gut level: Kids grow faster, and goats on pasture remain in better condition with lower quality forage. I have used the Rumensin blocks for cattle for this purpose for 20 years.

Treatment of kids not on a preventative program: Sulfa drugs according to label instructions. There are many different brands of sulfa drugs available. Treatment dose is different depending on the manufacturer. Goat kids can scour and die in hours if not treated. Biosol ( Neomycin 200 mg/ml)can be used orally in a weight appropriate dose, along with Pepto Bismol to stop scouring and dehydration. Spectam Scour halt is also an effective treatment.

Pneumonia: The organisms that cause the most loss in goats are the Pasturella species: Specifically Pasturella hemolytica, P. Multocida, and Haemophilus Somnus. I prefer to vaccinate goats for the prevention of this disease.

Treatment: Nuflor is the drug I prefer: 6cc/100lbs SQ as a first dose, followed by 3cc/100lbs SQ each day for at least 4 days. Goats are smaller, they have faster metabolisms, they need to be treated every day or they tend to relapse and die. They do not respond as per cattle recommendations on the label. To augment the treatment, I use Polyserum 10cc SQ for an average size doe. The product comes in several names depending on manufacturer. It usually has Actinomyces Pyogenes, P. multocida, P. hemolytica, Samonella, and E Coli in it. It is antibodies to the diseases, as CD antitoxin is antibodies to Enterotoxemia. Banamine can be used at the dose: 1cc/100lbs body weight to alleviate respiratory distress, and as an antiendotoxin to help prevent damage to kidneys and liver by toxins produced by bacteria. It is also anti-prostaglandin, and will help prevent the secretion of prostaglandin, that will precipitate abortion secondary to injury or illness. Prostaglandins are secreted in
 response to pain.  I prefer to vaccinate to prevent these diseases. I use the Super Poly Bac B Somnus, by Texas Vet Labs. This is a cattle vaccine, and the goat dose is 1cc SQ repeat in 2-3 weeks. It is very effective to prevent pneumonia. It protects against P. Hemolytica, Multocida, and P. A6, Haemophilus S. and Samonella.

Enterotoxemia: Bloat is the most common symptom. The kids die very quickly. Grown goats take a little longer, but still die if not treated. Depending on size, I treat a 50 lb kid with 5cc CD antitoxin SQ, 5cc SQ long acting penicillin, 5cc orally of Penicillin, and 15cc orally of Pepto Bismol. Usually the kid will be significantly better in an hour. I repeat the Pepto Bismol later in the day. On day two, I give CD antitoxin 5cc, 5cc SQ penicillin, and a dose of live probiotics. Vaccinate in 5 days after last CD antitoxin.

Does can be vaccinated 2-3 weeks prior to kidding; to have colostrum immunity, that protects kids until they are 12 weeks, and old enough to vaccinate. I use Covexin 8, to vaccinate for the Clostridial diseases.

CL: Caseosa Lymphadenitis: Causative organism: Corynebacterium Pyogenes, sometimes called Pseudo-tuberculosis.

This is a disease endemic around the world. Other species than just sheep and goats can have the infection.

Symptoms are usually abscesses of the lymph system. Most common are abscesses under the jaw or other lymph areas.  Abscesses can be internal affecting any or all organs of the body, and can be found in the udder, or testicles. These infections are significant in reduction of vigor, and ability to thrive. Goats with internal abscesses frequently have a wasting condition that can mimic other diseases.

Prevention is simply to vaccinate. The ground can be contaminated on the premises where goats are kept, and any broken skin, or quicked hoof can permit entry of bacteria.  Positive goats can be vaccinated with an Autogenous vaccine, and the disease suppressed. These animals are not contagious if they do not have an abscess. Clean animals can be protected from infection through a conscientious vaccination program. If does are vaccinated a month prior to kidding, then there is enough colostrum immunity to protect them until the are 12 weeks and old enough to vaccinate.

Blood tests for detection are not always effective in guaranteeing clean animals. Goats can be exposed on day 5-10 prior to testing, and still test negative, yet they are positive.  Many producers think they are safe buying tested goats, when this is not a guarantee of anything. The only safe option is to vaccinate, booster in three weeks, and then annually for the life of the goat.

Positive herds can be cleaned up by vaccination, and suppression of the disease. Kids protected through colostrum of the vaccinated does, and subsequent vaccination of keeper kids by 12 weeks. As time passes, the older positive does can be culled, and only clean animals retained. Prevention is still the safest method, as treatment is not always successful.

Culling is a very important issue in management. I cull does that walk away from their kids, or kick one off. A doe with triplets may kick one kid off, and that is not a culling issue if she does not have milk for three kids. Does that need to have kids pulled more than one pregnancy are a liability. Does that have an udder that a newborn kid can't nurse without human intervention, will not raise that kid if you are not there, and often that udder structure is inherited? I keep my doe kids at the headquarters, and they are monitored during the first kidding. If they have a problem, they go to the auction, since I put them on pasture after that, and they will die if they have a problem.

A goat needs to have a good mouth. I cull any goat that has a bite in which the teeth do not meet the dental pad. No exceptions. They must eat to live.

Goats with bad legs or feet, feet that grow excessively, and or other bony structural abnormalities, go to the auction. Bucks need to have two large well formed testicles of equal size. No excessive split of the scrotum. Bucks that do not have adequate libido are not acceptable either.

This is how I do it.

 Coni Ross, RN, Rancher, goat raiser for 25 years
AMGA director, Region Coordinator, AMGA judge.


CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Road 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606

Here is a list of Con's in ordering supplies

Here is a list of Con's in ordering supplies:
Supply sources for Goat products:

CEE Sales Inc.- Bob Cass
Source for Calf Pac, and other supplies at competitive prices

Sweetlix Products
Clark Springfield, East Texas Rep.
Sweetlix main number: Jackie Nix 877-933-8549

Walco ( used to be Hi Pro) 877-289-9252
Animal health products: vaccines, drench guns, automatic syringes, wormer, etc. Very competitive prices.

 American Livestock Supply

Livestock Concepts




Valley Vet
fax: 800-446 5597

All kinds of feeders, hay racks, working pens, grafting and kidding pens etc. Functional products that work.

From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: goat that stepped on nail

I would treat aggressively for infection with A 10 cc SQ dose of Penicillin, 10 cc Polyserum, and Probably Nuflor. Tetanus or CD antitoxin would also help. I would repeat the Penicillin every day, and the Nuflor
for 3-5 days. I have seen gangrene develop from a puncture wound of this sort, and the goat had to have one digit amputated.  Look at the site of the puncture, and open it. I would clean it with peroxide and 7% Iodine
mixed 50 50, and make sure the pus is out. I would open it up, to clean it, even if I had to use a scalpel or sharp tissue scissors.  They can die from a puncture wound like that. Coni
Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:51 AM
Subject: [The_Boer_Goat] Tape worms

The label dose for Valbazen is 5.5cc/100lbs, so triple that 16.5/100lbs.
Synanthic is 2.5cc/100lbs & tripled 7.5cc/100lbs. None of the white wormers will kill stomach worms if not triple dosed, and I do it for tape worms, since they are very hard to kill.
Pathogenic: harmful. Pathogenic bacteria like Pasturella species, Clostridial species. Non Pathogenic as in the normal flora of the rumen that digests feed.
Most of the "experts" in the field don't consider the Monesia tape worm to be pathogenic. I will argue that, since in great enough numbers, it can cause starvation, or a state of "non thriftyness". Kid goats can scour. Years ago, I had a bunch of Angora kids scouring. I wormed them with Ivomec (Ivomec was new, and very effective). They continued to scour. I did a fecal, and there were those triangular shaped ova. I got some Benzelmine (now Synanthic) a horse wormer from the vet, and wormed them. The next day there were piles of dead tape worms in the pen, and the kids stopped scouring. The  expert from Texas A&M had told me they had inhibited Osteragia. After the numbers of dead tape worms on the ground, I knew the tape worms were the problem. I worm all of my goats at least once a year for Tape worms.

The mite that stings your arms when you gather fresh hay is the intermediate host of the Monesia tape worm. It can be on any grass, or fresh hay. Coni

Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606

Judy Watson <>
Subject: Sick Doe

         When you treat for listeriosis or goat polio, how long is it usually before you see signs of improvement?
         I may have my first case ever on my ranch.  An adult doe (4-5 yrs. old) was found yesterday with head down, very lethargic.  I walked up to her and handled her and she completely ignored me which is very unusual as she is as wild as the wind.  Got the truck and brought her and her triplets (5 weeks of age and huge) to the house.  Had to carry her to the pen in a wheelbarrow.  No temp. (102.9 and yesterday was warm).  she stands and leans against the side of the pen and might be blind.  She also has bouts of some pretty severe tremors (full-body).  Not eating or drinking by herself.

         .  She has been in a ryegrass field with access to hay and sweetlix minerals, small amounts of pelleted feed every other day or so.  Otherwise she is in good condition.  Have not seen any other goats with similar symptoms so I doubt (but have not completely ruled out) consumption of a poisonous plant.
         I have been giving her thiamine and penicillin every 6 or so hours and drenching with magic and water.  There appears to be no change in her condition today.  Am trying to reach vet now, but can anyone tell me how
long it takes a case of polio or listeriosis to respond to treatment?  Or have any other ideas of what might be wrong?         Please respond directly to me as I am on digest.
Thank You,

Judy Watson
Rt. 2, Box 287Goldthwaite, Texas  76844
(325) 938-5403

From: Judy Watson <>
Subject: re:  polio/listeriosis update

         Thanks everyone for responding to me.  I finally got through to the vet and he agrees with goat polio.  In addition to continuing with penn. and thiamine I'm giving dex and banamine for 3 days.  Am now drenching with revive with baking soda and corn syrup added.  I think she may be looking very slightly more alert, but it is hard to tell.  I guess the fact that she is still alive is a positive sign.

Judy Watson

: "Ray/Jannette Wood" <>
Subject: Re: Hi and a question

Randy, Coni Ross also has a formula for pregnancy toxemia that is given in the day time, whereas Magic is given nightly. Revive is for short term and Magic for long term...
Revive for Pregnancy Toxemia:
1 bottle of 50% Dextrose
20cc of B Complex
5cc of B12
3cc of 500mg Thiamine
1 bottle of Amino Acid
3 grams (6cc) of 50mg Ascorbic Acid...
You may also add a bottle of Calcium Gluonate 23% Solution to this.
Give Revive 100cc + 100cc of water mixed (200cc total) 3 to 4X a day. Then at night give 8 oz of Magic. Give Calf Pac with each treatment.
I do wish you success...


: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: Vitamin B1: Thiamin

Thiamin can be given orally for polio. I usually give a 10cc SQ dose of Penicillin, then 10cc orally to kill bacteria in the rumen causing the problem. Polio can be caused by plant thiaminase, or bacterial
thiaminase. I think in most cases, goats respond when treated both orally and with a shot of Penicillin, then at least 500mg- 1 gram (1000mg) IM of Thiamin initially. Then later that day I give a dose of Calf Pac to reinstate the normal organisms of the rumen. I still give the Thiamin IM the second time that first day. On day two, the Thiamin may be given orally. I usually mix it with a little water, and some Revive.

The neurological system works on thiamin, and glucose. If the goat can't eat, then it is low on glucose. The electrical signal from the brain travels from cell membrane to cell membrane on glucose and thiamin. In polio, the signal does not get from brain to body part. Polio has many presentations:  Paralysis can be any body part, or parts, or just stiffness, stargazing, and or blindness. If the goat is blind it takes much longer to recover. If the goat is found down, and on it's side, with a running struggling motion of the legs, it is not likely to survive. Massive brain cell death occurs in the absence of thiamin, so prompt treatment is key to recovery. Treatment with thiamin supplement must continue until the animal is recovered. I have best luck using Calf
Pac, Revive, and at least 500mg thiamin/day. The rumen bacteria (normal flora) manufacture thiamin, so when there is stress, fever, pneumonia, or consumption of toxic plants, this can kill normal bacteria, and onset
of polio is likely.

Coni Ross
CR Ranch
13285 Ranch Rd. 2325
Blanco, Texas 78606

From: "Melinda" <>
Subject: bloated kid- please help!

We have a bottle baby that ate too many leaves from the tree branches we trimmed this weekend and now she is bloated. We drenched her with 2oz. veg. oil and have been massaging and walking her. Is there anything else we need to do? Poor thing is miserable. She won't lay down and when she baa's is it strained sounding.

From: "Robin L. Walters" <>
Subject: RE: bloated kid- please help!

Give her 10cc penicillin orally & 15-30cc pepto orally. If you have any C&D Antitoxin, give her that also. 

Banimine (weight appropriate dose 1cc-100lbs) would help some also.  Robin

"Barbara" <>
Subject: Re: bloated kid- please help!

Give her 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in 5cc of water.
Give her 15cc/60# milk of magnesia orally and do warm water enemas on her until you get her to passing feces.
Keep massaging the tummy as well.
I would give her 3cc Of CD anti toxin SQ.
Barbara Howard

From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: bloated kid

Most of the time, when a kid bloats, it is Enterotoxemia.
Do not use vegetable oil ever, it adds to the digestive load. If you must use oil, use mineral oil, it is inert, and will speed peristalsis, so that digestive contents move down the digestive tract. The Clostridial bacteria that causes Enterotoxemia grows in the gut, and systemically. The bacteria produce acid, that cause gas formation, and toxins that kill the organs.  I have very good success treating them as follows: I give a young kid 15cc Pepto Bismol (antibacterial, anti-gas, and antacid) 5-7cc oral Penicillin (to kill the bacteria topically in the gut), 5-7cc Longacting Penicillin SQ (to attack the bacteria systemically), 7cc CD Antitoxin SQ ( to destroy the toxins produced by the bacteria), and Banamine 1cc IM/100lbs. So a 20 lb kid would get .2cc of Banamine. I use an Insulin or allergy syringe to give Banamine to a kid. I repeat the CD antitoxin in 6 hours, and the Pepto Bismol. On day two, they are usually well, but do need to have a dose of Calf Pac. I give all bottle  babies 2cc CD antitoxin, and 3cc Polyserum SQ every 14 days. They don't get sick. Bottle kids nibble on the ground, and
Clostridial bacteria are in the dirt. Coni
Subject: Re: I have a doe down!

If polio she should not have fever, if listeria, she should have a fever.  You are doing the right things. I'd repeat the thiamine soon. 
: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: kids with that won't eat

I would treat them for floppy kid. I give 2cc longacting penicillin, and 500mg Thiamin orally and they will stand and nurse in 6 hours or so if you catch it quickly. If the kids are moribund, I give them some 50%
dextrose, usually 5cc or so orally to get some sugar to the brain, and they seem to recover faster. You must treat them three days in a row, or they will relapse. Any time a young kid seems wobbly, weak, and can't
nurse, I treat for floppy. The Penicillin is just plain injectable, and it can be given orally to topically kill the bacteria causing the problem. Coni

From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: banding big kids, using a Burdizzo

Tim explained it well. I would like to add that if you pull the sack through the band, and squirt the first testicle through, then the second one, it works quite well. I have banded bucks with very large testicles. I have held them between my legs with the rear end forward, and pulled the testicles out in front and banded them. Keep the rear legs off of the ground.

TO use a Burdizzo: I usually have someone else restrain the buck for me on his side. Grasp the testicular sack, and pull the cord over to one side of the neck of the sack, up against the edge of the skin on that side. Hold the cord there, and put the Burdizzo over only the edge of the neck of the testicular sack. Check to be sure the cord is still in place, then close the clamp completely. It only takes a second to crush the cord, and the blood supply. Before you release that side; check again, to be sure that the cord is inside the clamp. Release the clamp, and do the other side the same way. If you don't feel the cord in the crushed part, you have not done the job, and must try again. Stay below the body at least 2-3" if possible, when you are clamping the  area. You only have to clamp above the testicles. Don't clamp the entire sack, or it turns black and dies. You don't want to do that, but only to kill the testicles inside, by stopping blood flow.


: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: kids with belly, not growing

First, I would worm them. Be sure to use enough wormer to do the job.
Second, I would calf pac them, and make sure you have a feed with Rumensin. Sometimes kids have sub-clinical coccidiosis, which will interfere with absorption and growth. Coccidiosis will damage the lining
of the gut, and will decrease feed efficiency. If the kids are young, and not getting enough milk, a cup per 50 lbs of feed can be added to the creep feed in the feeder.

Subject: pot bellied kids

If you  are bottling the kids, hold the bottle up high, so that the milk goes down the esophageal groove, That helps absorption. Second, make sure your milk replacer has Milk as the first ingredient. Measure milk powder separate from water. If you are feeding kids creep feed, you can add 1 cup of nonfat dry milk (generic will do) from the grocery store. I also use Calf Pac in the feed, and in the milk. Pot belly means the kids are not getting enough protein. I would put a Rumensin block in with them, unless you have Rumensin in the feed. The Sweetlix Meat Maker Mineral with Rumensin is good too. Coni
Coni Ross
CR Ranch

I would give kids an ounce a day, and adults 6-8 oz depending on weight.
Be sure to calf pac, so that they don't scour from it. Coni

From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: goat that can't swallow

I would take the goat to the vet. There is likely an abscess in her throat that is becoming larger, and impinging on the esophagus, and the trachea. I have seen this off and on for years in different goats. I doubt it is cancer. If you don't get it cut out by the vet, she will likely die. It does not have to be CL, it can be any kind of bacteria
causing it. There are lymph nodes in that area, and that is where bacteria stops and replicates.  If she can't swallow well, and is salivating excessively, then that means she will dehydrate, and die. Not being able to swallow one's own saliva doesn't give her much time. Coni
Coni Ross
Subject: Re: Re: question

Doprem for babies is 2/10ths of a cc under the tongue. Older goats get 5cc SQ.
Barbara Howard
From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: dog bite goat.three legs

I would suspect she still has pus in that leg, or else there is muscle scaring from the bite. Hold her still, and try to extend the leg full length, and then fell of the area. I would bet there is a "ball" in the muscle. If the tendon were severed, the muscle would bunched up just above where it is torn or severed.

When I had those two wolf dogs get into my doe kids a couple of years ago, there were two that took almost 3 mos. to get completely well. One had bites on her back legs that caused similar symptoms as what you are
describing. I finally sedated her, cleaned the skin, took my knife, and cut down to the "ball" that I could feel in there. It was full of stinky pus. I drained it, flushed it with iodine 7% mixed 50:50 with peroxide, and kept it open by  flushing it each day. I sprayed it with scarlet oil to keep it open, and it healed very quickly after that. You might examine her yourself, then ask the vet to do it if you can't. Coni
Coni Ross
"Ray/Jannette Wood" <>
Subject: Re: Twisted Ankle - Dex dosage

John, when one of our does got caught in the fence...she is around 40#...we gave 5cc of Dex., 10cc of Pen. and Calf Pac...this was Judy and Coni's treatment over the phone to us...Now the Dex was for swelling of spine and head...cause she had her head caught...but he probably needs it for the same reason as he twisted for sure trying to get out...Always give Pen with Dex...according to our gals...
Ray/Jannette Wood
  From: "Sharon Moore" <>
Subject: Re: My Stinking dogs

. 1 quart 3% Hydrogen Peroxide
a.. 1/4 cup Baking Soda
a.. 1 teaspoon liquid soap

Mix in a bucket (it will fizz).
Soak your dog's fur, but be careful not to get any in his eyes.
Use a sponge to clean off his head and around his eyes.
Knead solution into the fur and be sure to get every part of him with it.
Rinse thoroughly.

I'm a pro groomer, and this does work as well as anything.  Hopes this

Sharon M


Another note I found on the subject:
Downy Fabric Softener liquid also removes the odor.
From: Andy Highland <>
Subject: Water feeding via nipples (long)


This note is continuing a discussion from GoatER in reference to my warning that large amounts of water should not be given to young ruminants via a bottle or other nipple device due to the danger of causing hemoglobinuria (what appears to be blood in the urine, but in fact is hemoglobin from red blood cells which have burst and colored the urine red).

This is a moot point to those of you who never have cause to bottle feed kids or who never use a lambar. However, it is important information for those who do feed milk via a nipple device and then at weaning time (or when you need to give meds., etc., to young goats) start giving lots of water via a bottle or lambar.
This information is per my experience and what I learned a few years back:

When weaning a Nigie doe kid who had been bottle fed, I decided to follow advice that I'd read about adding warm water to the bottle as the amount of milk was gradually lessened. The hypothesis was that this would both help ease the transition off of milk and aid hydration until the kid was drinking water well from a bucket. It sounded like a good idea.

When the doe was getting 8 oz. of water am & pm, she started to have red or pink urine sporadically . There didn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the incidents. I took her to her vet  immediately and testing was
done. Meanwhile, the vet said to get the doe to drink more water to aid in flushing the urinary tract. The more water the kid drank, the more frequent the incidents of red urine (from once or twice a week to daily)
and the redder the color.

Urinalyses, cultures and blood work showed no infection, no bacteria, no parasites. What showed up as "blood" via one vet's dipstick urinalysis was found to not be blood but hemoglobin when examined via microscope at
another lab. The kid was not acting sick or off in any way. I sought advice from other sources.

Three, large animal vets and two, small ruminant specialists (non-vet) were involved in the case. Even though I'd raised goats for a dozen years, all management practices, feed, pasture plants, etc., were investigated in addition to a thorough medical workup. No cause was found.

The mystery was solved by one phone call to Dr. Wendy Freeman, then Goat Specialist for U.Penn's New Bolton Center, Lg. Animal Hospital.  Dr. Freeman stated that she has seen many cases of "osmotic hemolysis"
(rupture of the red blood cells due to water intake) in young ruminants (esp. sheep) who are fed water via a bottle or other nipple device such as a lambar. Reportedly, the critter confuses the water with milk and drinks too much water for it's system. Ruminant systems are not designed to suck in large amounts of water at one time.

I was told that when a goat drinks water from a bucket or even from a drench, it does not take in the same quantities at a time as it will when sucking on a nipple. Dr. Freeman states that water should never be
given via a bottle or lambar to a ruminant who has been fed milk the same way.

Within one day of stopping the water via a bottle, my doe stopped passing red urine. Fortunately, the anemia that I had caused her to suffer also cleared up in time and there was no permanent damage.

I hope this helps prevent others from making the same mistake that I made.


Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [The_Boer_Goat] sore footed doe

There is no heat to the area, just that nasty-smelling "cheese" between the toes, up high in the junction between them………..

  I have had very good luck in dissolving some Copper Sulphate crystals (got mine at the feed store in a re-sealable little bucket) in water and soaking the affected foot (feet) in that once or twice.  That has usually cleared it up.  It does burn so be prepared for her to jerk or kick.Wear protective eye gear so it doesn't get splashed in your eyes while treating.  I made the mistake of not doing that one time....never again !!

  Peggy Taylor

Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:22:55 -0500
   From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: doe with scours (diarrhea)

You got good advice. Have that stool cultured. When a goat scours and does not respond to Biosol, or other common treatments, Salmonella should be suspected. I would give 10cc SQ of Polyserum, or Bovi Sera. These have the antibodies to E coli, and Salmonella, as well as Pasturella hemolytica and Pasturella Multocida: the most common cause of pneumonia in goats.

Is the stool liquid, or is it sticky, and lumpy? Did you treat with enough of a dose of a white wormer to be sure it isn't tape worms, or Trichostrongylus?  If the cultures are negative, I would be very wary of Johne's.  Coni

Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:27:26 -0500
   From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: thiamin deficiency/ POLIO in goats

Well the bacteria of the ruminant manufacture thiamin (put very simply).For some reason, occasionally bad bacteria, or plants kill the normal bacteria, causing overgrowth of bad bacteria that produce Thiaminase.
Thiamin is destroyed.
Thiamin and glucose are the mode by which the electrical transmission goes from brain to body part. Without it, the signal does not get there.The animal may present with various symptoms, but usually there is paralysis, or stiffness, stargazing which may be accompanied by blindness. Sometimes the symptoms are virtually the same as Tetanus. To determine if the animal has Tetanus or polio: Tickle the eyelashes. If it is Tetanus, the nictating membrane (third eyelid) will flip over the eye. If not, and there is no fever, this is Polio.

To treat, I give: 10cc oral longacting Penicillin to kill the bacteria in the gut, 10cc Longacting Penicillin SQ (for a grown goat factor for kids), and at least 500mg IM of Thiamin, and 500mg SQ to start. Thiamin is vitamin B1, and is water soluble, so it doesn't last long. The IM Thiamin goes to work right away, and the SQ Thiamin will provide a more sustained blood level. I usually give the goat several ounces of Revive, or 50% Dextrose mixed 50:50 with water, to get some sugar to it's brain.

If not treated, massive brain damage occurs, and death is probable. ON day two, I restart the rumen with Calf Pac, and  continue with the same regimen of Thiamin. No more Penicillin is necessary in most cases.
Thiamin must be continued until the goat is fully recovered.
Coni Ross
CR Ranch

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:18:13 -0500
   From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: mange mites vs mites

That sounds like mange to me. I would Ivomec them each with an oral dose of the injectable, and spray the legs, bellies, and other affected areas with Prolate dip 1oz/gal . I would also scrub any areas that are crusty with a stiff brush, to make sure it is through the skin layers. I treat once a week for at least 3 weeks, and longer until the goat is cleared up. You will probably have to spray the lounging areas, inside sheds, and barns, or put down DE to kill it, or they will be re-infected. Any warm blooded animal can carry mange that travels across your pens. I had a squirrel several years ago that was naked from his forelegs back with mange, and I caught him eating out of the buck's feed troughs. NO more mites after I shot him. Coni
Coni Ross
CR Ranch

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 06:29:50 -0500
   From: "Coni Ross" <>
Subject: bumps on goats

This could be mosquito bites, or it could be a fungus. There is a fungus that is systemic, that causes bumps. As the infection progresses, the bumps open up and become infected with bacteria, usually Staph. Coni
Coni Ross
CR Ranch

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