Nardwuar vs Bill Kaysing

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Nardwuar vs Bill Kaysing

Nardwuar: Who are you?

Bill Kaysing: Well, I am an alternative lifestyle writer, I have written about twenty books on how to live outside of what I called corporative imperatives, they are how to live very cheaply, how to not get caught in the rat race.
Nardwuar: Your name is Bill Kaysing

Bill Kaysing: Yes, I’ve written a number of books, there should be more in Vancouver library because the books have sold well and Lampoonics sold a couple of my books.

Nardwuar: For years, Bill, I've heard the rumour that Disney faked the

moon landing. Now you're here, Mr. Kaysing, to prove it's true, aren't

you? R.E.M. sang, "If you believe they put a man on the moon", you're here

to prove it, aren't you, Mr. Kaysing?

Bill Kaysing: I'm here to prove that no man has ever landed on the moon.

What's the background for that? There are lots of books on this subject,

aren't there?

Oh yeah, there are quite a few and there are more coming all the time.

Interestingly, several people have, and will, produce videotapes based on

my material.

There's a new book out, N.A.S.A. Mooned America.

Yes, that's by a man named Ralph Rene, who lives in Pasaic, New Jersey,

and the book is very well-done. It's far superior to my book because Rene

is essentially a self-taught engineer, and he's come up with a lot of

important points that I missed completely.

Well your book, We Never Went to the Moon, Bill, was probably the first

book to expose the moon hoax, wasn't it?

Yes, it was written in 1974 and has essentially been available ever since.

Rene calls astronauts, 'astro-nots', which is very interesting.

Yes, that is true. He has a good comic sense.

Bill Kaysing, can you give your background of your involvement in the

space program and what the official government line is about people

landing on the moon?

I was for seven years head of technical publications for the Rocketdyne

Research Department at the Propulsion Field Laboratory in the Simi Hills,

that's near Kenoga Park, California, and during that time I had top-secret

clearance and Atomic Energy Commission (A.E.C.) clearance and of course I

was in on all of the top secrets about the development of Mercury and

Gemini and, of course, Atlas, and, eventually, Apollo. And my experience

as a technical writer led me to believe that a lot of the things that the

aerospace industry and NASA preferred to have done, were never done. And

they were not as successful as they pretended to be. [As to the second

question,] the government claims that the reports of astronauts and

photographs and some rocks prove that we went to the moon and my feeling

is that some photos and some people who have been under military pay or

military jurisdiction all their lives and some rocks don't prove a thing.

In fact, there is so much contrary evidence to going to the moon, such as

solar and cosmic radiation, micro meteorites, the temperature on the moon,

the fact that the astronauts never reported how magnificent the stars were

or they never showed a picture of the crater that should have been dug

underneath the lunar lander - it goes on and on. I have hundreds of pieces

of information that any really intelligent person could review and then

decide for themselves.

Well, particularly, Mr. Kaysing, could you just prove it here with some

little points, that we actually did not go to the moon. In your book you

mention that there were no stars in the photos that NASA took.

That's right, and they had the most marvelous opportunity to take pictures

of all the stars in the universe visible from the moon. I've talked to a

number of top-level astronauts, both locally and elsewhere, and they say

that the astronauts would have been overwhelmed by the sight of trillions

of stars, not to mention Jupiter and Saturn and the other planets and so

forth, but not one picture has ever come back from the alleged trip to the

moon showing the stars in all their magnificence, nor do any of the

astronauts comment on the stars. They completely ignore it. It would be

like going to Niagara Falls and talking about the hamburger you ate.

Doesn't NASA say that the reason there were no stars is because their

cameras weren't set for the proper exposure, isn't that their line?

That's their line and that's pure baloney, because I've talked to

photographic experts who say that NASA have all the money in the world to

have a camera that would have taken magnificent pictures of stars. But

there's a little problem, you know, the temperature on the moon is 250°F

during the lunar day, and a friend of mine put some film in an oven and

ran it up to 250 and the film just curled up. If you notice that the

Hasselblad camera is worn outside of the astronaut's suit and it is not

curled in any way. So that camera would have heated up to the temperature

to bake cookies in a very short time, because the Sun on the moon is

absolutely relentless, there's no atmosphere to mitigate the heat of the

Sun. So it's obvious that the pictures that they brought back were not

taken on the moon, nor could they have actually taken any pictures on the

moon, even if they had gone there.

So apparently they faked the moon landing. If the moon landing was faked,

how come they didn't include stars in their studio, apparently in the

Nevada desert where they were faking the moon landing?

They could not fake the stars and maps because there are too many

astronomy buffs, and I've talked to a lot of them. They would have

measured the angularity between stars and the position of the stars

behind, let's say, the Earth. No way, even with the most advanced

computers, could they have created star pictures that would have been,

let's say, acceptable to the astronomy buffs. So at MIT, where the

simulation took place, the planning for it took place, they simply decided

to stonewall it and not include any pictures of stars at all.

Where was the moon landing faked? Somewhere in the Nevada desert? What's

the deal on that, Bill Kaysing?

Well it's said that there's an area near Quebec that looks just like the

moon and that the astronauts spent some time up there. They spent lots of

time in the Nevada desert and it looks a great deal like the moon. But

here's the kicker - there's an Air Force base near San Bernardino, called

Norton Air Force Base, and they have the world's largest sound stages

under tremendously efficient security. They could have easily created all

of the moon sets in those sound stages and filmed to their hearts'content.

This was in the Nevada desert.

Well, this was in Norton Air Force Base in San Bernardino, but they could

have done it in the Nevada desert in an area called 51, which is the

north-east corner of the A.E.C. base there.

They have a lot of UFO stuff going on around Area 51.

Oh yeah, 51 is a place where you don't want to be found at all. All the

guards carry submachine guns and they are told to shoot to kill if anybody

gets inside the base.

So continuing on, Mr. Bill Kaysing, author of We Never Went to the Moon,

to prove that the moon landing was faked, you mentioned that there were no

stars in the photos that the astronauts brought back, but also you

mentioned it was impossible for the United States of America to actually

make it to the moon at that time, that there had been some problems, and

that you were involved with the program at this time, so you knew about

those problems.

Oh yes. One of the major problems, of course, was trying to get things to

work in essentially an alien environment. Outer space is no picnic. You've

got the Van Allen belt around the Earth, you know, about twenty miles up,

the Van Allen belt would probably have cooked any astronauts who ventured

into that area. Then you've got outer space where there are billions of

micro meteorites zipping around at speeds up to 60 000 miles per hour, and

these would have gone right through the command capsule with the

astronauts in it, and kept right on going, and these micro meteorites are

all different sizes, from the head of a pin to, say, the size of a

grapefruit and larger.

Weren't there actual events, though, that happened to NASA that made them

realize they couldn't send somebody to the moon? When did NASA realize

that it was impossible for them to send somebody to the moon and that they

would have to fake the moon landing?

Well, initially, they realized it in 1959 when I was privy to a study made

by the Russians. The Russians discovered that the radiation on the moon

would require astronauts to be clothed in four feet of lead to avoid being

killed. NASA picked up on this study and, of course, did some studies of

their own and, subsequently, other studies were made about all of the

different hazards on the moon, particularly something as benign, you might

think, as temperature. The temperature on the moon during a lunar day is

250°F. Now, trying to keep either the suits or the lunar lander cool

during that tremendous heat from a blazing sun would have been impossible

because they did not have enough air conditioning power.

So you're saying in 1959, the USA realized that they couldn't put a man on

the moon?

That's when they got hold of the Russian studies. The Russians never

intended to land men on the moon. They concentrated on unmanned vehicles.

And the so-called space race was just a lot of baloney.

Well, Bill Kaysing, what I don't understand is, if NASA realized they

couldn't put a man on the moon in 1959, what about those astronauts who

died in 1967 on the launch pad? Did NASA know that those guys were going

to die on the launch pad? Were they sacrificed to make the space program

more realistic?

Aah...I would say that's - you're pretty close to that. A fellow by the

name of Gus Grissom was very disenchanted with the Apollo program and he,

on the day that he was burned to death, he hung a lemon on the command

capsule to let people know what he thought of it. Prior to that, he made

many trips to the rocket down in Downey Plant to examine the equipment and

he realized that it wasn't going to work. A few minutes before he was

burned to death, he said, hey, you guys in the control center, get with

it. You expect me to go to the moon and you can't even maintain telephonic

communications over three miles. But my theory about Gus Grissom was that

he was about to blow the whistle on the entire project and that he was


What was the intention of those astronauts - what Apollo mission was that,

the one that the guys died in?

That was Apollo 1. Grissom and Chaffee and White, his two companions, were

supposed to take off in the fall of 1967 and go to the moon.

And what did NASA have for that, like, what was going to be the plan? They

were going to actually make it to the moon? That was actually a moon

flight? Not really.

What did NASA have planned? If NASA was faking the whole moon program,

what was going to happen to the astronauts , what was their mission? What

was NASA trying to achieve or prove to the public?

Well, by simulating a trip to the moon, they could easily then justify the

$30 billion that they spent. They intended to get Gus Grissom, and Chaffee

and White, to actually lie about their trips to the moon, just like

Armstrong and Aldrin and all the other astronauts here lied about their

trips to the moon. I call astronauts who allegedly landed on the moon

bald-faced liars, and particularly Alan Shephard.

Why is that?

Well, Alan Shephard is one of these particularly obnoxious people. After

Grissom was murdered, he refused to help Grissom's wife, Betty Grissom,

get a settlement from N.A.S.A and from North American Aviation, which she

held responsible. And Shephard didn't approve of this at all. He said that

we should accept the deaths of astronauts and you don't need any money.

So, Bill Kaysing, nobody ever landed on the moon, right, Bill?

That is absolutely correct. I will stake my life on it, and I have many,

many, many people who will support this view with technical information,

including a man who as at the Goldstone tracking station during all of the

Apollo flights and he is absolutely convinced that they were faked.

What, exactly, brought him to this decision?

Well, he realized that all of the input to the Goldstone tracking station

came from NASA in Washington. Well, that certainly made it convenient for

them to fake any communications that they wished. In other words, they

were not picking up data from Apollo on its way to, or on the moon, or on

its way back. They were getting communications from NASA Greenbelt in

Washington, DC, which had complete control of all the communications. And

at this point I'd like to mention that Walter Cronkite was the father

figure that NASA chose to essentially hype the whole project. Cronkite is

a rather big liar.

Well, he was in on the Kennedy thing, too, wasn't he?

Oh yeah. Recently, he did a film that completely disputed the truth about

the Kennedy assassination.

What I'm still curious about, Bill Kaysing, is that - did NASA kill those

astronauts in 1967, did they kill them on purpose because they knew too

much? Or was it actually an accident that happened?

No, it was no accident. They murdered them because, you see, I found out

just recently that whenever NASA was in trouble they would call on the CIA

No we all know that the CIA has and can kill anybody they want without any

feeling of conscience whatsoever. So it's my feeling that the CIA was

hired by NASA to very adroitly kill Grissom, Chaffee and White.

Let's get a timeline here, Bill Kaysing. You're working here with

Rocketdyne, on the space program?

I was working on the space program from 1957 to 1963.

With probably a lot of ex-Nazis from the Ghelen organization, I bet.

Oh, I met some of them. There were a lot of Nazis including, of course,

Werner von Braun. And an interesting sideline is that, after the Apollo

project was over, he completely lost interest in space travel, retired and

went to work for Grumman, then he died of cancer. This also evokes the

recollection that, after Apollo 11 allegedly returned to Earth, three of

the leading NASA investigators resigned without an explanation. Now this

tells you that there were some men of integrity who would not go along

with this scam.

So you're working at the rocket place developing, working for the space

program. You eventually leave the space program. At that point, did you

know that the moon landings were going to be faked. 'Cause you said in

1959 the USA realized they couldn't put a man on the moon, so they started

faking stuff. Why didn't you spill the beans right then?

Well, I don't know. What motivated me to spill the beans was a young man

from the Vietnam wars by the name of John Grant. He said that he was sent

to Vietnam to kill people with no good reason and he also got a heroin

habit, and he says, "Bill," he says, "what I want you to do is blow the

whistle on this rotten, corrupt government." He says, "Why don't you say

something outrageous, like, we never went to the moon?" So I attribute my

interest in this project to John Grant.

If the moon landings were faked, why did they continue faking the Apollo

flights. Like, in the movie Apollo 13 it points out that nobody really

cared about the space program at that point. You know, America had made it

to the moon, why continue faking moon landings if they already made it to

the moon?

Well, the plan was to have something like eight or ten Apollo flights to

the moon and they had been given the money to build all the vehicles to do

it, and they felt obligated to carry on with the simulation. But remember

this - by the end of Apollo 12 people in America, possibly elsewhere, were

completely bored with the project. So what they thought they would do, and

did, was they would create a cliffhanger. And Apollo 13, which didn't

happen at all, despite the movie, was simply a simulation inside of a

simulation to get people's interests back into the space program.

Apollo 13 was totally faked.

Totally faked. It never left the earth.

The movie that was up for nine Oscars™ never even happened.

It never even happened.

But that guy wrote such a realistic book.

Well, sure. He's paid to write a realistic book. You know, many of the

Apollo astronauts have become multimillionaires. Where do you suppose all

that money came from?

Well, why did they keep faking the Apollo flights, I still don't

understand. Did the Soviet Union know it was faked? Why did they keep shut

up if they knew it was faked? 'Cause a lot of people would think they kept

the moon race going to prove the U.S. was better than the Soviet Union. If

the Soviet Union knew, why did they let the U.S. get away with this?

Well, I'll tell you - at the highest levels there is a coalition between

governments. In other words, the Soviets said, if you won't tell on us -

and they faked most of their space exploration flights - we won't tell on

you. It's as simple as that. See, what Apollo is, is the beginning of the

end of the ability of the government to hoodwink and bamboozle and

manipulate the people. More and more people are becoming aware in the U.S.

that the government is totally and completely public enemy number one.

Well, let's get a little bit more into the proving part of We Never Went

to the Moon, Bill. You mentioned before that there were no stars in the

photos. NASA says the cameras weren't set properly - you say, well, they

could have been set properly, they just didn't do it properly. There was

no crater beneath the lunar lander. What's the significance of that?

Well, the significance is that the lunar lander engine developed 10 000

pounds of thrust and I've seen many, many rocket engines of that

capability in action and they are so powerful that they will move giant

rocks across the canyon. A 10 000 pound thrust engine would have dug a

hole right down to bedrock and it would have stirred up an enormous cloud

of dust, and that never appeared in any of the so-called films that they

took of the lunar landing. So, the absence of the crater in any photograph

of Apollo lunar landers is actually probably the only real proof that you

need. You don't need much beyond that and the fact that there weren't any


What about the operation of the lunar module, in the sense that it takes

place thousands of miles above the moon, this is what NASA says. The big

explosion that comes from the lunar module, when it lands on the moon, it

happens way up above the moon, and that's why there's no crater. What

about that explanation?

Well, you know yourself that the lunar lander eventually had to, according

to NASA, land on the moon. Well, as it approached the landing point, the

engine still had to develop enough thrust to keep the lunar lander, which

weighs, in lunar gravity, about 3000 pounds, they had to develop enough

thrust to keep it floating above the surface in order to let it gently

land on the surface. But that obviously was not substantiated by any

crater under the lunar lander engine.

Furthermore, the radiation should have turned the astro-nots into crispy

space bacon.

Yes, it would have. And it also would have pierced them with thousands of

micro meteorites. The moon is not a place for human beings, ever.

And Russia did a study in about '59, and this is what the U.S. picked up

on, when the U.S. realized in '59 they couldn't go to the moon because the

radiation was so bad - is there any background for this, are there any

records that prove this, about the radiation out there in space?

Well, I think any good astro-physicist could give you all the data,

because it's been pretty well documented by studies. It's not hard to find

basic information on flights in outer space, and what you'd come across

when you do investigate it is how hostile the universe really is once you

leave the Earth's protective atmosphere.

Do you believe that rockets ever made orbit; did Surveyor or Pioneer

actually happen?

Possibly. Possibly not. I'm not absolutely certain about that. I will

concede that certain unmanned vehicles might have made it to the moon. The

Russians are supposed to have sent some unmanned vehicles to the moon. And

possibly our Surveyor did land on the moon. But units with people in them,


How 'bout any actual atmosphere, like John Glenn in space, Yuri Gargarin -

were they actually in space?

I doubt it.

So the Soviet Union faked that Yuri Gargarin was in space, and that dog

that died, Laika, really didn't die?

Mmm...I don't think he was up there. See, there was a fellow by the name

of Lloyd Mallin in the early '70s who wrote a very detailed book saying

that all - well, nearly all - possibly all of the Soviet space exploits

were faked, and he proved it with photographs and technical data and so

forth. I still have a copy of that book.

So continuing on with reasons that we didn't make it to the moon here -

there were various lighting anomalies?

Oh, a lot of lighting anomalies. Some friends from Europe came over

recently and what they did, they're very interested in this project, they

analyzed NASA films supposedly taken on the moon, frame by frame. And you

know what they found out?

What, Bill Kaysing, author of We Never Went to the Moon?

Shadows diverged. In other words, if you have a point source of light,

like the Sun, and you can see this anytime outdoors, all shadows will

parallel - telephone poles, trees, you name it - all the shadows will be

parallel. Well, these men found, in analyzing frame by frame movies, that

there was more than one lighting source for this film. Now that proves

beyond any doubt, in my mind, that these pictures, these motion pictures,

were taken inside of a movie set, using gigantic spotlights to simulate

the Sun. But because they would pan shots and show, like, the Rover or

astronauts running around and so forth, if you analyze them frame by

frame, you find out that the shadows are not parallel. This, to me, is one

of the most significant breakthroughs, and I only learned it about two

months ago.

Well how 'bout NASA countering that - they say that in some pictures

astronauts are lit from more than one side because the sunlight is

reflected off the lunar surface, or off the lunar vehicle.

Very unlikely in a vacuum, because light doesn't go around corners unless

it's assisted. If you look at NASA pictures allegedly taken on the moon,

all of the potholes, the little mini craters and so forth, have completely

black shadows. Well, any picture of any device on the moon should have had

completely black shadows where the Sun did not illuminate them.

How about the pictures of the moon where there are curves in the moon, how

did they achieve that if they faked the moon landing, Bill Kaysing?

Oh, well - when I was in Frankfurt, Germany recently I saw about a

six-foot diameter moon, a model, and it was absolutely perfect. So all the

NASA people had to do was create a model of the moon and they could shoot

any curvature they wanted.

Did people see Apollo 11 take off?

Well, yes, certainly.

So what happened, then, if they saw it take off? The rocket took off - if

we didn't go to the moon, what actually happened when Apollo 11 took off?

The Apollo 11 vehicle, or Saturn 5, was sent out of people's sight, and

then it was jettisoned into the South Atlantic, where all of the six that

were launched now reside. There were no astronauts, of course, on board.

They were hidden away carefully, to be returned, allegedly in their

command capsule, by being dumped out of a C5A transport plane. It was easy

to do all of this, because they had total control of everything.

So they were not on the rocket when it took off, then?

No, they were not.

And then they were picked up - now, you talked to a pilot who saw all this


Yes, a pilot came on the air when I was doing a broadcast and he says,

"Bill, I agree with you 100%. I was flying from San Francisco to Tokyo and

I saw, along with several passengers, a command capsule dropped out of a

C5A and the red-and-white candy-striped parachutes opened and it descended

to the surface of the ocean."

And what happened then?

Well, they were of course picked up and put into biological suits so they

wouldn't afflict anybody with moon germs, but my theory on that is they

couldn't tell these big bald-faced lies this early. So they were actually

kept from the press for approximately a month until they could sort of

reconcile themselves with telling a lot of big lies.

No, but I'm just curious, Apollo 11 takes off, the rocket dumps in the

South Atlantic - what happens then, are the astronauts just hiding

somewhere, and then eventually they get on a plane and jump out of the

plane and they've landed - that was it?

That is correct.

No moon involved at all.

No moon involved at all. I am 100% positive of this, and every day when I

get information from people who support my views, I'm more convinced than


How did they make the astronauts float, Bill Kaysing, 'cause it seems

pretty convincing when you seen them floating around there. Like, a lot of

people when you say, "hey, you know, we never went to the moon", they

went, "I saw it! I saw them floating there! I saw them on the moon right


Well, that could have been done just like they did the Broadway play Peter

Pan. In other words, [they] used wires and suspended the astronauts from

an overhead crane and had them leap gaily across what actually was a moon

set. No, it's not difficult to show astronauts taking big leaps, nor is it

difficult, for example, to put them in a simulated command capsule and

have them go through an anti-gravity curve.

Another point here is that the moon rocks were fake. Are the moon rocks


No, they are not real. NASA has a well-developed ceramics laboratory with

high-temperature ovens-

That's another way NASA could prove they went to the moon, 'cause they

brought back these rocks. Interestingly enough, at the University of

British Columbia here, David Strangway, the President of U.B.C., was the

guy in charge of inspecting the moon rocks.

OK, fine, why don't you call him up and ask him what he thinks about them.

So what happened, the moon rocks were not real?

No, they were manufactured on Earth to look like moon rocks, but since

nobody has any moon rocks to compare them with, it's very simple to make

up a moon rock and say, hey, this came from the moon.

Well, how would you know it is a moon rock? Like, how do you know it's not

a moon rock - how do you know it's a fake?

I had a Seattle geologist who examined moon rocks and he said, "There's no

question, Bill, that these rocks were made in a laboratory on Earth."

The actual astronauts had strange language as well. I know this from your

book and also some other articles, like Houston Control said, "Well, it's

a good show", and then the command service module replied, "Fantastic",

and then Armstrong replied, "Yeah, I'll second that." Like, well, it's a

good show. That was interesting language.

Yes, and you can find a little more of that in an article published in a

magazine called Wired, published in September of 1994. [It's a] 4000-word

article by Rogier van Bakel, essentially on my contentions.

Bill, has anybody ever seen the studio that this was faked in? 'Cause it's

in Area 51, which you alluded to. It was also alluded to in the films

Diamonds are Forever and Capricorn One?

Yes, that's right. They did allude to the sound stage, or the hidden moon

set. No, the reason no one has ever seen it and come out alive is that

they don't intend for anybody to see it and come out alive. You’ve got to

remember that NASA is kind of a lethal organization. Jim Irwin - Apollo 15

- was put up to blowing the whistle on the whole project and he called me

up, ostensibly to give me the facts. Few days later he died of a heart

attack. Now what does that tell you?

Well, a lot of people died when dissing NASA What's the significance of

the Baron Report?

Oh, that's profound. A man named Thomas Ronald Baron was an inspector on

Pad 34, where Grissom, Chaffee and White were murdered. He brought forth a

500-page report on the mismanagement, the incompetence of NASA and North

American [Aviation]. And again, like Jim Irwin, a few days after he

testified before the Congressional Investigating Committee, he was found

dead in his car at a railroad crossing. Now what does that tell you?

A lot of people got knocked off.

NASA and the CIA and the whole U.S. government is a rotten and corrupt

organization, designed just to get all the tax money they can out of

people, to manipulate their minds, to keep them amused with sporting

events and silly TV sitcoms. We, unfortunately, in the U.S. are pretty

well brainwashed, believing whatever the government says. And they have

control, as you well know, of the media.

How much space stuff since 1959 has been real? What space stuff is real

today? Did the Challenger blow up? Did NASA know it would blow up?

Yeah, and you know why it blew up? Because Christa McAuliffe, the only

civilian and only woman aboard, refused to go along with the lie that you

couldn't see stars in space. So they blew her up, along with six other

people, to keep that lie under wraps. I claim that Christa McAuliffe was


So when the Challenger blew up, it wasn't because of O-ring problems, it

was because NASA murdered the people because they didn't want to go along

with the gags?

Well, Christa McAuliffe was a woman of great integrity, and she would not

agree to say that you couldn't see stars in space.

So, Bill Kaysing, are you saying that Roberta Bondar, Canada's first women

astronaut, never actually made it in space, 'cause she was on the Shuttle.

Well, I'll tell you what - the Shuttle is a possibility. After all, it's

low altitude. I haven't done a great deal of research on the Shuttle, but

several people have said that the Shuttle is actually faked, also.

So Christa McAuliffe refused to say that she couldn't see stars in space,

which would have verified the moon landing claim of no stars in the photos

in the moon, so they blew her up.

Yeah, exactly. Once you start telling lies, you've gotta keep on going.

And then, of course, you try to cover up lies, like the film Apollo 13.

Which, I'm sure, is not on your favorite flicks list for this year, right?

I've seen it, and I examined it very carefully, and I found a tremendous

anomaly in it. They show the exhaust of the lunar lander model engine as

being a yellow-gold. Well, the fuels used on the lunar module were

nitrogen tetroxide and asymmetrical dimetal hydrazine, which produce an

opaque red gas. So their technical experts on Apollo 13 weren't really

with it.

So, who else is gonna get murdered, what else is coming up? What's the

future? What is real that's in space that we can see out there, Bill


Well, I would say this, that the number of people that believe my version

of Apollo are increasing in great numbers. I had a fellow come up from LA

He borrowed all of my papers, materials, video and film and so forth, went

back and did an hour-and-a-half tape on We Never Went to the Moon. The

book is being translated into German and Italian in Europe. I've had

inquiries from Australia, from Hawaii, from essentially all over the

world. And all of them are highly supportive and have given me a lot of

brand-new information which I never knew before. So my feeling is that,

within a short time, the Apollo hoax will be exposed and that will open

Pandora's box. After that, the U.S. government is going to be hard-pressed

to keep the lies about the Federal Reserve Bank, about the IRS being the

Gestapo of America, about the fact that all silver was taken out of

circulation in 1963, the fact that Canada does not import our meat because

it's so full of rotten chemicals. I'm sure you knew that. The Canadians

are pretty smart, because they don't import American meat. So, you see, in

this country, we're at the short end of things because of the corruption

of the government.

There are some people who believe that the moon landing was faked because

the U.S. government didn't want to disclose that they'd been on the moon

since 1910!

No. My feeling is that no human being has ever landed on the moon, because

of the lethal environment on the surface.

How do you deal with people who you're trying to convince? Isn't it like

trying to convince people that the Earth is flat? How do you distinguish

yourself with these people, Bill Kaysing?

Well, it's easy. I've got the proof. I've got the photographs, which are

available to anybody. All it takes is some study. If you look at the

pictures taken of Aldrin by Armstrong, you can find so many mistakes in

those photographs that anybody in his right mind would realize, just by

those photos alone, that they were faked.
Well, how did the media fall for this?

Well, the media doesn't fall for anything. The media is controlled by the

government. The Dutch papers on July 21 [1969] said that the moon landing

was a hoax, was a fake, and I have been unable to find any of those Dutch

papers, although it's well documented that they did publish information,

with proof, that the U.S. was spoofing everybody.

Didn't the National Inquirer have stuff, too?

Well, I did send some of my material to one of their subsidiaries, called

The Weekly World News, and they did a marvelous job of presenting my

material. It was extremely accurate. So, I've been in newspapers, I've

been on Oprah Winfrey's show, and quite a number of leading television


What did Oprah want from you?

Well, she wanted me to talk about the moon book. I did that July 5, 1981

in Baltimore, Maryland.

Have you ever talked to any astronauts at all?

Oh yes. I've talked to Edwin 'Buzz' Aldrin. I was invited to appear on CBS

television in Los Angeles with Colonel Aldrin. And they called him up, and

he wouldn't appear with me. So I called him up, and I said, "Buzz, why

don't you appear with me?" And his exact words were, "That is something I

do not want to do," and he hung up. Now if, in reality, they had gone to

the moon, wouldn't they put me on the air with a genuine astronaut, and

let me debate with him. You've got to remember, too, that Neil Armstrong

has not given more than three interviews since he allegedly returned from

the moon. A friend of mine went to see him, to question him, and he not

only refused to talk to him, he said, "If you hang around my farm much

longer, I'll call the police." Now, here's the most famous man of the

twentieth century, Neil Armstrong, allegedly set foot on the moon, July

21, 1969 - why won't he talk about it?

Maybe he's just tired of talking about it.

No, he couldn't be tired of talking about it, because it's his duty and

obligation to be a national hero. He took NASA’s money, he was supported

by the government for many, many years, and here he is, in a position of,

let's say, talking about Apollo in a very convincing way, but he won't

talk at all. Now, he lives on a farm in Ohio, near Columbus. Anybody can

find his address and go see him.

Bill Kaysing, you've been trying to prove that we never went to the moon

for twenty years now. What new information have you garnered?

Well, as I said, most recently the divergent shadows. Ralph Rene has done

a very comprehensive study on temperatures on the moon. He's proved that,

in no way could the lunar lander, where Aldrin and Armstrong slept, have

been cooled down, because they did not have the power. What's happening

now is that a lot of technical information is coming on stream. Also, I'm

on the Internet, and my book's on the Internet, and I'm now getting 'phone

calls from many different people who believe in my contention that Apollo

was a hoax, and they have contributed a lot to the body of information

that I have managed to acquire.

Is there any way of going to the Smithsonian in Washington and looking at

the stuff and seeing that it is fake?

Oh, yeah. One of my friends went to the Smithsonian and he measured the

exit door of the lunar lander and found out that astronauts wearing their

life-support systems could not have gone out that door, they were too big.

And all this was faked somewhere in the desert.

Well, either in the desert and/or Norton Air Force Base. I suspect that a

lot of the real fine photography and action was done at Norton, where they

were able to create what appeared to be solar lighting. That was one of

the most difficult things to do, was to simulate the Sun, 'cause the Sun's

light is so glaring, so powerful, that it would have taken a tremendous

arc lamp to simulate the Sun. And they could have actually created a

vacuum inside the sound stage. See, if you have $30 billion, it's no

problem to do just about anything you want, including murder people,

eliminate anybody who comes on stream and tells opposing stories. I have

been invited to talk on radio many times, and I have been immediately


In what sense?

Well, for example, Chuck Ashman in LA called me and he said, "I understand

you say we never went to the moon." And I said, "Yes, and here's my

proof." Well, he clicked me off and said, "Well this is what I call an

irresponsible journalist, a man who has no real proof that we didn't go to

the moon, but he's running around telling people that it was all a hoax."

Are there any other points that we haven't [covered] here today, Bill

Kaysing, about not making to the moon, more proof?

Well, I think we've covered the very important general ones. There are a

lot of details. For example, Edwin Aldrin, when he came back from his

alleged trip to the moon, wrote a book called Return to Earth. Well, I've

read the book three times, and in it we find a man who is trying

desperately to tell the truth, but he's unable to. In other words, they

put the wraps on him, they told him, don't ever talk about the moon as a

fake. But an interesting thing happened to Aldrin when he was speaking at

Edwards Air Force Base to some of his fellow pilots, he was asked by a TV

interrogator, "What was it like to be on the moon?" And Edwin Aldrin at

that point could not answer that question. he began shaking and trembling,

he walked off the stage into an alley and later got drunk. Now, if you'd

done something, honestly and truthfully, you can talk about it without any

problems. Well, it was obvious that, here was an occasion when Aldrin

could not tell that lie one more time.

Have you been threatened at all, Bill Kaysing.

Oh, death threats and letters with skull and crossbones on them. I've been

called a Commie sympathizer, a traitor to the United States. Many things

have happened to me. One time I was on KOME radio doing a three-hour show,

and half-way through the show someone dropped napalm on the transmitter in

the Gilroy Hills. They wanted to cut our story off. Police came, they

offered us police protection, and KOME was off the air for three days

until they could a quarter of a million dollars' damage.

Boy, Americans really care about the moon landing, don't they?

Oh yeah. Well, it's like Pearl Harbor. They managed to cover up the truth

at Pearl Harbor since December 7, 1941. Everybody that was in W.W.II,

including me, knows that the Japanese were set up to do it. In fact, some

people told me that two shiploads of gold were sent to Japan to finance

Pearl Harbor, they were sent by the British. So the British wanted us

involved in the war and Pearl Harbor seemed like a good way to do it.

So the Americans bribed the Japanese into bombing Pearl Harbor?

Yes, and Roosevelt not only knew about the attack, he helped arrange it,

and he suppressed the information about the Japanese attacks from Kimmel

and Short, the naval and army commanders at Pearl Harbor. This was one of

the biggest hoaxes perpetrated by the U.S. government to get us involved

in a deadly war. There's no question that it was all set up.

If people want to get a hold of you, Bill Kaysing, what is your address?

PO Box 832, Soquel, CA, 95073 and I would be happy to correspond with

Canadians about these subjects at length.

Why should people care about the moon landing, Bill Kaysing, why should

people care that the moon landing was faked?

Well, I think we should care because it proves that the U.S. government is

just a body politic of lies and falsehoods. They have been for many, many

years on all of the important subjects. Social Security is bankrupt, the

food in America is all weak poisons, people are put under the thumb of the

IRS There are so many things wrong with the U.S. Now, don't get me wrong,

I don't dislike the people - it's the government that I call public enemy

number one.

Anything else you'd like to add to the people out there?

Well, I'll say this - whether you believe my story or not, go to the

library in your spare time and take a look at some N.A.S.A books and study

the photographs, use your own intelligence to analyze them and see that

they could not have been taken on the moon. That's the number one proof.

All right, Bill, keep on rocking in the free world and doot doodle oot do-

What's that?

Bill, doot doodle oot do-

Ha, ha - whatever. I'll take it easy.

No, doot doodle oot do-

Doot do.

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