Kgg-mp/1A/11. 00 The House met at eleven of the clock, mr. Chairman in the Chair obituary reference to justice V. R. KRISHNA IYER mr. Chairman


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SHRI BHUPINDER SINGH: If it continues, then, the students studying in the Central Government-run schools will not get proper degrees, and they will fail.

Though I would not like to mention here, but still I would say that our education system has become more commercial than a place of learning and place of information. It is rather going towards commercialization. We have to check that. I congratulate the hon. Minister for bringing forward such a Bill. In fact, it should have been brought long, long back. We have to wait five decades for it. If there is no planning, then, many things happen. Today, this House is concerned about natural calamities in Uttarakhand, Srinagar and Hudhud in Andhra and Odisha. (Time-bell) Sir, just give me one more minute.

Sir, we talk about man-made floods in cities. Why does it come? It is because we are not having planning for our cities. Have you done any planning for 500 smart cities? Do the small townships which are looked after by urban bodies have any planning? We are closing the natural ways of water sources to the towns. This causes flood inside the cities; this causes flood inside urban areas. So, we call it man-made calamity. The answer is, we should have proper planning and proper architect for the cities. Today, Sir, the 21st century demands that we should include the subject of vastu into our syllabus because without vastu there cannot any architectural building in future. So, I would like to request the hon. Minister to add ‘vastu’ in this subject. With these words, on behalf of my party, I support this Bill. Thank you, Sir.


SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI (TAMIL NADU): Sir, the first speaker who started to speak on this Bill spoke about scientific temper, and the speaker just before me, talked about including vastu.


SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: No, he spoke about astrology.

SHRIMATI SMRITI ZUBIN IRANI: He also spoke about vastu.

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: I really hope that the hon. Minister keeps in mind that maintaining scientific temper among the students is more important than anything else.

(Contd. by 3Q-KLS)


SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI (CONTD): Sir, I would like to bring to the notice of the Minister, through you, that in India we have so many buildings but we do not build them as universal friendly building, which are disabled friendly. According to the Census of 2011, there are 26.81 million people with disabilities in India, but they are invisible. This invisibility is mainly due to inaccessible infrastructural facilities that we have in this country. Even the new buildings which are built and the old buildings which are already existing, we do not care about them and making them hurdle-free. These may be school buildings, Government buildings. Even when you go to hospitals, there are a lot of difficulties which disabled people have to face. Under the United Nations Convention on Protection and Promotion of Rights and Dignity of Persons with Disabilities, India has committed to provide accessible infrastructure to persons with disabilities as a right. Therefore, there is a need to promote research, learning and implementation of universal design for construction in such buildings. This has to be a part of the curriculum and it has to be made mandatory for the students of architecture.

Another point is that the Government has announced more than 100 smart cities. Urbanisation is very important part of today's world. Every city is becoming bigger and developing, but nothing is done about planning. That is of great concern in Tamil Nadu. In the city of Chennai, I am not talking of the present Government... ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI A. NAVANEETHAKRISHNAN: No, no. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: Oh! God. ...(Interruptions)... Please. ...(Interruptions)... Chennai city was started 125 years ago. ...(Interruptions)... We celebrated this occasion. ...(Interruptions)... Sir, I am talking about Tamil Nadu. ...(Interruptions)... Chennai was there 125 years ago. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI A. NAVANEETHAKRISHNAN: I am sorry, no, no. ...(Interruptions)... This is not correct. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... Let her speak. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: They are not allowing me. ...(Interruptions)... They are wasting my time. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): You make your point. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: Chennai is not a planned city. It was built at the same time. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): You make your point. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: I am talking about the period 125 years before when there was British Rule. ...(Interruptions)... What is she talking about? ...(Interruptions)... Did I say anything when you were speaking? ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI SASIKALA PUSHPA: She is not talking to you directly. ...(Interruptions)... Through you only, Sir, she is making her point. ...(Interruptions)...

DR. K.P. RAMALINGAM: Why are you unnecessarily interrupting her? ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): Address the Chair. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI A. NAVANEETHAKRISHNAN: The law is important. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): Address the Chair. ...(Interruptions)... If there is anything wrong, we will see it. ...(Interruptions)... Let her make her point. ...(Interruptions)... Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: Sir, the city of Chennai has celebrated 175 years.


SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: Thank you for the correction, it is 375 years. We are not talking of any recent Government here. ...(Interruptions)... We are talking about the point that the city of Chennai is not a planned city. It is a place where different villages came together and grown into one big city. So, there has not been any proper planning. I am just giving this as an example. When there is rain nearly half the city gets submerged.

SHRIMATI VIJILA SATHYANANTH: Now she is again talking about it. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRI A. NAVANEETHAKRISHNAN: Chennai is the right place to live. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: I am living in Chennai, Sir. ...(Interruptions)... Okay, I will speak about the past. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): She is not yielding. Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... If there is anything objectionable, ...(Interruptions)... I am not allowing you.

(Followed by 3R/USY)


SHRI A. NAVANEETHAKRISHNAN (CONTD.): She is giving a distorted version. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): Okay. Please sit down. ...(Interruptions)... You will get a chance to speak, when you turn comes. ...(Interruptions)... Shrimati Kanimozhi, now conclude please. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: Sir, there are so many interruptions. I am not talking about the present Government. There is no politics involved. Why are they interrupting? You please bring the House in order, if you want me to continue. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): I am also asking for that. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: I am just speaking, but I am being interrupted. Please let me speak.

Sir, with so many Smart Cities, which have been announced, I think, it is very important to include in the curriculum of architectural students to make sure that they learn about town planning, so that there are no problems in any of our cities, in future. The most important thing is that they have to find ways to rectify the storm water drains and ensure proper maintenance. So, all these things have to be taken into consideration. (Time-bell)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): Please, conclude. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: Sir, lot of my time has been wasted. ...(Interruptions)...

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): Okay. But finally conclude now.

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: There is a need for conservation and preservation. As Indians, we do not realize the value of our heritage buildings. We do not maintain them. We do not restore them. The walls of old granite temples, which were built by the early Cholas, were built by ball and socket method. There is no stronger way of building our temples than the ball and socket method. But the people, who had taken up renovation work in such temples, have actually plastered them with cement. At many places, in the name of kumbhabhishekam, they have actually sandblasted the paintings, which were over 500-600 years old. We have lost them forever. So, it is very important that we concentrate on restoration without destroying our heritage. I think, it is not important that just the architectural students only learn about this, rather every engineering student has to be taught its importance, because most of the time, it is the PWDA engineers who actually end up doing this job. They also have to be taught how to preserve and how to restore without hurting the buildings. (Time-bell)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (DR. SATYANARAYAN JATIYA): Okay. Thank you. ...(Interruptions)...

SHRIMATI KANIMOZHI: Sir, just one more minute. We must attract more talent in the field of conservation. Everybody goes into building new structures, and not many students are attracted in the field of restoration. I think, the Government and the Minister have to do something to make it more lucrative and more interesting so that a lot of young talent comes into the field of restoration and preservation.

Thank you. (Ends)

PROF. M.V. RAJEEV GOWDA (KARNATAKA): Sir, I rise in support of the passage of the School of Planning and Architecture Bill, 2014. Being the proud husband of an architect, my children's amma, I am aware what a wonderful and creative people architects are. I would like to offer some concrete suggestions to enable the SPA Bill to become more effective.

First, I come to the faculty-related issues. For any educational institution to achieve its potential, it needs motivated and capable students, outstanding teachers and wonderful infrastructure. But attracting faculty for teaching is not easy. Today, the Government regulations are coming into the way of SPAs to attract the best talent. Let me explain how. The architecture is a field which is a professional field. Rule, applied to professional courses, should take into account the context of where knowledge is created. And, in architecture, knowledge is created in the field.

(Contd. by 3s – PK)


PROF. M.V. RAJEEV GOWDA (CONTD.) : In professions like architecture, knowledge is created in the field. So, if you want to get the best practitioners who are at the cutting edge of knowledge into the classroom, you have to have regulations opened up in the classroom to practitioners. You should change the regulations that prevent the teachers from taking part in private practice or even institutional and Government practice. Today, faculty members are discouraged from engaging in practice and this must be reversed.

Another aspect of faculty development in SPAs is this. If this is a profession, as a practice, then, a PhD should not necessarily be the requirement for a faculty position. There will be numerous practising architects who would not have a Ph.D but whose knowledge and experience would be more valuable than those with a PhD. I speak as a Ph.D myself. I urge the Government to bring in more flexibility in its requirements, so that outstanding practitioners can be brought back to the classrooms of the SPAs.

Sir, the second point is about urbanization. India is going through rapid urbanization, but it is happening with little planning and vision. Urban design is turning out to be the ghastly by-product of self-interested actions of real estate developers. Green design is becoming a game of certification rather than something that protects the environment. Sustainability and environment pay the price and so do the citizens.

It is imperative that SPAs play a more active role in working with urban planning authorities so that our cities grow in a manner that respects their natural ecosystems. It is imperative to integrate large-scale public transport into the cities as they grow. It is imperative to create public spaces that enable people to interact and play together, the spaces which encourage building up of social capital across communities. It is imperative to ensure that cities proactively plan for migrants and to create proper living spaces for construction workers who work and build the structures that they will never get to live or work in. We also need the SPAs to help create an urban planning and management cadre of professionals. Those professionals should be integrated into the Government and the relevant Government Department professionals should also be sent to the SPAs for mandatory executive education. We also need the SPAs to diversify the curriculum to bring in geography, informatics, economics, development studies, mass communications, etc. to make education in Planning and Architecture a much more holistic endeavour than it is today.

On the issue of smart cities, my colleague, Shri Shantaram Naik, has already spoken. So, I will move on to the fact that the Minister really needs to go beyond the three SPAs that exist today and create many more such institutions around the country including in Karnataka. In Karnataka, in Bangalore, we already have private sector initiative through philanthropy, the Indian Institute of Human Settlements, which is doing cutting-edge research on urbanization and engaging with international universities and coming up with programmes that are really meaningful to India's evolving context. At the same time, Sir, we need the SPAs to pay more attention to certain other contexts to which we are paying less attention today. We are seeing development in the mountain areas. Whether it is the North-
East of Himalayas, we need our top institutions to pay attention to development plans and design that ensure that those ecosystems are not hurt and that we do not face natural disasters going forward. Going beyond the mountains, the very topography of our country offers a huge canvas for innovative architecture, for design and planning that is suited to the context of deserts, forests, coasts, hills, the Western ghats and even our islands. At the same time, Sir, we must ensure that disaster management is integrated into the curriculum of these institutions. They have to be at the forefront of disaster planning and work hand in hand with the National Disaster Management Authority to ensure it not just within those institutions, but even in the new institutions it needs to be brought in because we are facing more and more challenges in the context of climate change. While I talk about urbanization, I do not want to leave my village brethren behind. We have to look at village and local architecture. We need to ensure that our villages incorporate the best of our learnings. We need to ensure that we strengthen or diverse locally-relevant architectural heritage. We should stop aping the West.

(Contd. by PB/3T)


PROF. M.V. RAJEEV GOWDA (CONTD.): We should ensure that the SPAs play a leading role in creating built environments where people and nature come alive harmoniously. (Time-bell)

Sir, India is a country with an extraordinary architectural heritage unrivalled in the world. From Mohenjodaro to the Mughal monuments, from Khajuraho to Konark to Karnataka’s Hampi and Halebid, even our Parliament House, India has shown what kind of extraordinary architects we can produce. We have revered architects in Karnataka like Jakanacharya. Let their example be the inspiration for the SPAs as they embark on their new mission to be institutions of national importance. I wish them the very best and commend this Bill to the House for passage. Thank you.


श्री मेघराज जैन (मध्य प्रदेश) : आदरणीय उपसभाध्यक्ष महोदय, योजना और वास्तु, ये दो अलग-अलग विषय हैं। योजना शहर को बसाने के बारे में होती है और वास्तु भवन को बनाने के बारे में होता है। वास्तुकला एक महत्वपूर्ण विधा है, जिसके द्वारा वास्तुविद अपनी कल्पना को आकार देता है। अलग-अलग कल्पना के आधार पर अलग-अलग प्रकार से वह भवन को स्वरूप प्रदान करता है।

(श्री उपसभापति पीठासीन हुए)

मनुष्य का स्वभाव है - अच्छी से अच्छी चीज़ देखना, प्राप्त करना और उसमें रहना। इसके लिए वास्तु का बड़ा महत्व है। योग्य वास्तुकार किसी नगर या बस्ती की रचना में चौड़ी सड़कों, नालियों, ड्रेनेज, धूप, हवा, पानी, रोशनी, प्राकृतिक दृश्यों, बगीचों आदि को ध्यान में रखकर योजना बनाता है।

आज शहरों और गाँवों का विकास तेजी से हो रहा है। नई-नई कालोनियों तथा बस्तियों के निर्माण के साथ-साथ गाँवों में मकानों का निर्माण हो रहा है, किन्तु वे नियोजित नहीं हैं। अगर वास्तुविदों के माध्यम से इनका निर्माण हो, तो कभी भी आपातकाल में, जैसे अग्नि, बाढ़, भूकम्प अथवा अन्य किसी दुर्घटना के समय में वहां पर वाहनों का सुगमता से आना-जाना हो सकता है। आज आवश्यकता है कि योजनापूर्वक नये नगरों एवं गाँवों का विकास हो और इसके लिए अधिक मात्रा में वास्तुविदों की आवश्यकता होगी। ऐसी अवस्था में इन विद्यालयों का महत्व और भी बढ़ जाता है।

अनुसंधानों तथा अध्ययनों से इन विद्यालयों को अंतरराष्ट्रीय स्तर का बनाया जा सकेगा। इसमें एक बोर्ड का भी गठन होगा, जिसमें विशेषज्ञ रखे जा सकेंगे। इससे शिक्षा का स्तर और भी उन्नत होगा। इन विद्यालयों से निकलने वाले छात्रों को डिग्री प्राप्त हो सकेगी, जिससे उनको सरकारी, गैर-सरकारी तथा स्वतंत्र रूप से रोजगार प्राप्त करने में सुविधा होगी।

प्राचीन काल में भी वास्तुशास्त्र का अध्ययन होता था। भारत तथा अन्य देशों में जो भव्य इमारतें हैं, वे वास्तुकला के बेजोड़ नमूने हैं। भारत के किले, उनमें पानी संग्रह करने के स्थान, गुप्त मार्ग, दक्षिण भारत के भव्य मन्दिर, राजस्थान के जैन मन्दिर, जैसलमेर की हवेलियां, जोधपुर और चित्तौड़ के किले, कुतुब मीनार और ताजमहल आदि वास्तुकला के अचम्भित करने वाले उदाहरण हैं। हमारे संसद भवन, राष्ट्रपति भवन, नॉर्थ ब्लॉक, साउथ ब्लॉक भी वास्तुकला के ही कमाल हैं।

वास्तु में भवनों की सुरक्षा के साथ-साथ हवा, पानी और रोशनी की पर्याप्त व्यवस्था का विचार होता है, जिससे कई इमारतें सर्दी में गर्म तथा गर्मी में ठंडी रहती हैं। राजस्थान के मारवाड़ में वर्षा का पानी संग्रह करने की विधा के अध्ययन का आज के जल संकट एवं शुद्ध पानी के अभाव देखते हुए बड़ा महत्व है।

मेरा माननीय मंत्री महोदया से निवेदन है कि वास्तुशास्त्र और आधुनिक तकनीकी ज्ञान का समावेश वर्तमान समय की आवश्यकता है। परम्परागत रूप से इस व्यवसाय में लगे लोग एवं सोमपुरा समुदाय के लोग पीढ़ी दर पीढ़ी से यह कार्य कर रहे हैं। यदि आप बच्चों को भी इन विद्यालयों में प्रवेश लेने हेतु प्रोत्साहित करेंगे, तो अति उत्तम होगा। इन विद्यालयों के विद्यार्थियों को उच्च प्राचीन तकनीकी ज्ञान से अवगत कराने के लिए यदि उन स्थानों का भ्रमण करवाया जाए, तो और भी अधिक उचित होगा।

मैं आशा करता हूं कि इस विद्यालय के निर्माण में इन सब विषयों को ध्यान में रखा जाएगा। इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ, मैं इस विधेयक का समर्थन करता हूं।


SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN (KERALA): Sir, I want to draw the attention of the Minister only to one aspect of this Bill. The function of SPA is to undertake research and innovations in architecture planning, design and allied activities. Now, the very concept of architecture is only meant for big buildings in cities. This concept has to be changed.

(Contd. by SKC/3U)


SHRI M.P. ACHUTHAN (Contd.): Now, there is a boom in the building sector, in real estate, and the main aim is to meet the desires of a small section of the society, that is, the upper middle class, the rich and the super rich. We are ignoring the vast majority of our people. Now, we have to focus on the needs of the common people, on building houses for them and on their housing problems. How will this institution be utilized to meet the demands of the growing number of people in the villages, in the urban areas and slums and how can we plan buildings to meet their demands? That must be one of the main aims of this institution. For that, there must be a change in our attitude. Just thinking about smart cities, big cities and huge buildings to cater to the needs of the big people will not serve the masses. The masses need small houses, affordable houses, pocket-friendly houses, with solar energy and rainwater harvesting facilities, and so on. Such buildings need to be constructed. How is your research going to help these people? That must be the aim. Otherwise, we can say that we have built huge buildings, architecture, monuments, etc. and boost ourselves, but it won’t serve the society. So, there must be a change of attitude, a change of vision, and if, through this Bill, the Minister takes appropriate action to fulfill the growing demands of the masses, then it would be of great help.

Thank you, Sir.



Pp 212 onwards will be issued as supplement

BILL, 2014 (contd.)
MR. DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Achuthan. Now, hon. Minister.

SHRI A. NAVANEETHAKRISHNAN: Sir, before that, with your permission, I would like to say just one thing. This Bill deals with design, planning and architecture. Regarding water conservation, as rightly pointed out by my colleague here, there must be a specific syllabus in the School of Planning and Architecture. In Tamil Nadu, there is an Act called the Rainwater Harvesting Act. So, in each and every plan there must be a provision for rainwater harvesting. So, that may be included. This is my humble submission. Thank you.


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